TJB re-issue on CD?
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Yup, and WHIPPED CREAM and DEFINITIVE HITS will be the top sellers...that's the way it's been all the way thru the reissue program and still is to this day. #3 is CHRISTMAS ALBUM and #4 is CLASSICS VOL. 1.
The difference? Well...SGT PEPPER is widely regarded as one of the best albums in all of music history (if not THE best) and has probably sold at least 20 times as many copies as WARM, TBAC and V2 combined. That's the difference.
Steven J. Gross
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lonely bull
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Mike Blakesley wrote: The difference? Well...SGT PEPPER is widely regarded as one of the best albums in all of music history (if not THE best) and has probably sold at least 20 times as many copies as WARM, TBAC and V2 combined. That's the difference.
You are missing the point Mike : I just quoted " Sgt Peppers " as a example - this is not about how many sales Vol 2, Warm and TBAC achieved - it's the fact that Herb chose not to include them in the Shout! re - issues simply because he dislikes them - it could have happened when the Beatles albums were all re - issued onto CD - simply because they didn't like Sgt Peppers they leave it out - it would have been wrong, just like omitting Vol 2, Warm and TBAC is wrong. In actual fact I believe that if Shout! were to re - issue Vol2, Warm and TBAC on CD they would sell by the bucket load .....
Dave....
You are missing the point Mike : I just quoted " Sgt Peppers " as a example - this is not about how many sales Vol 2, Warm and TBAC achieved - it's the fact that Herb chose not to include them in the Shout! re - issues simply because he dislikes them - it could have happened when the Beatles albums were all re - issued onto CD - simply because they didn't like Sgt Peppers they leave it out - it would have been wrong, just like omitting Vol 2, Warm and TBAC is wrong. In actual fact I believe that if Shout! were to re - issue Vol2, Warm and TBAC on CD they would sell by the bucket load .....
Dave....
lonely bull
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lonely bull said:
Dave, you may "in actual fact" believe that, but many of us here - and apparently many in the industry - believe you to be wrong. There is, in actual fact, data out there to prove that you'd be wrong.
Both VOLUME 2 and THE BRASS ARE COMIN', did, in fact, receive CD editions. VOLUME 2 was in print, on CD, for a full decade, and I'm sure that there are sales figures to prove that it was a poor seller.
THE BRASS ARE COMIN' was a very short release in Japan only, but I'm fairly certain that if it had sold well, it would have been released a number of times in Japan, just the way that WHIPPED CREAM and GOING PLACES received multiple releases over there.
I remember my weekly visits to record stores (back in the '90s when such things were indeed possible), ever in search for a new Herb Alpert title on CD. I recall endlessly running across copies of VOLUME 2, sitting there, unloved, and I wondered if the fact that it was called "VOLUME 2" actually had some idiot at PolyGram thinking that it was some kind of Greatest Hits release. It was the only logical explanation to me as to WHY it remained in print.
I had bought it years earlier, and am as fond of it as many. It's a Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass title, and I love all of them. It's definitely in the bottom tier though if I rank them.
WARM is the odd man out here. It's never had a release on CD, and its only entry into the digital realm has been the Shout! Factory remastering that was made available through iTunes. I'm on record as hating that whole process, but was dragged kicking and screaming into downloading it and then transferring it to my own CD.
Would WARM sell well as a CD? Perhaps it would sell a little better than the other two, just because so many of US have extolled its virtues. I'd surely buy it, and I know just about everyone here would. But we'd also buy ANY release with the name Herb Alpert on it.
But consider the average Joe out there who barely recalls the name "Herb Alpert". If he DID decide to spring for a CD, he likely wouldn't be grabbing WARM, which can claim its biggest "hits" as being the #51 charting "To Wait For Love", the #53 "Without Her". and the #78 "Zazueira". No, he'd be grabbing GOING PLACES or WHIPPED CREAM, or better yet, as mentioned, DEFINITIVE HITS.
VOLUME 2? What big hits are found there? Only "Marching Through Madrid" which did a marginal-at-best #96 on the Billboard charts. Hardly an enticing reason to buy an album. "A-me-ri-ca" DID show up on GREATEST HITS, but it wasn't really a hit single.
THE BRASS ARE COMIN'? The big hits here? It's "big hit" was "The Maltese Melody" - which actually didn't chart in the Top 100 at all. "Moon River" and "Sunny" showed up on some compilations, but were not actual hits.
Again, put a Herb Alpert album on CD and I'm there - so is everyone else here. But to say that these underling titles would sell "bucket loads" - well, maybe one bucket-load to the folks here - but that's about it.
It's unfortunate, but that's the way it is. Be thankful that Herb has control of his material and be grateful for the nice series of releases that we HAVE gotten. Many artists don't get that kind of treatment at all.
Harry
lonely bull
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Hi Harry - Thanks for Your reply and I take Your points onboard. I am lucky enough to have bought a copy of Vol 2 on CD back in the 90s here in the UK ( very rare over here ) but never managed to find TBAC on CD! Yes of course I meant Vol 2, Warm and TBAC would sell by the bucketload on Shout! to Herb fans on the corner rather than to the general public - I still dare not admit to my mates that I am a TJB fan cos they would take the mick out of me ( mock me, in Your language ) however I think things have moved on a bit since the 90s and just for curiosity value alone these albums could sell fairly well.And Yes, I am very grateful for the Shout! CDs I have bought so far - I just want those final 3 !!!!!!!!
Cheers, Dave .......
Cheers, Dave .......
I also feel sorry for you guys not in the US, as you can't get the iTunes downlaods (or at least, the last I heard, you couldn't). That's a shame. They themselves make a valuable addition to the Signature Series. They were all remastered and sound pretty good to my ears, even in somewhat lossy files.
Harry
Harry
lonely bull
Active Member
Yes - it's a real bummer that the iTune downloads were not available here in England - and still not available. I love "Warm" - have a few tracks on other compilation CDs - will have to make do for now, although I can still play my scratchy LP in desparation. Must admit that TBAC is not a preferred favourite but I would not turn it down if available on CD !!!!!!!
Dave......
Dave......
lonely bull
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CherryStreet
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Jay Maynes/Juan Oskar
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CherryStreet
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Jay Maynes/Juan Oskar said:
Posted: Sat 10/30/10 5:48 pm
Subject: Why not Bruce Kimmel?
Summertime & Warm seem like no-brainers for someone like Bruce Kimmel with his connections and skills to get the rights from Herb for a limited reissue CD pressing run. I would think that they would do well.
There was an interview with Herb in one of the jazz magazines a couple of years ago and he mentions that one reason he wanted to get control of his catalog was that there were a few albums that he "wanted to get them out of the marketplace." He doesn't mention titles. Then on the LOST TREASURES liner notes he mentions that some of the songs are from "unsuccessful albums."
I think we can take these things to mean that there are certain albums that trouble him and he just doesn't want them out there.
But then we also have Randy Badazz, who said that all the albums through CONEY ISLAND would eventually see release...although he did not specify a time frame or a format.
I think a time is coming when there won't be any physical media; you'll just "subscribe" to a music service and all of your players will be connected to the "cloud" and you'll be able to hear whatever you want to hear, at a few cents per listen. It's a bleak prospect in some ways but I can see the writing on the wall, the way things are going. But that still doesn't mean that EVERYTHING will be available! Only what the artist and his/her heirs want to put out there. (Plus whatever pirated material there is, of course.)
Sad to say, we may have to wait until Herb is playing trumpet with the angels until we see some of his music released. And who knows, he might have already made his offspring promise not to go against his wishes even then.
I think we can take these things to mean that there are certain albums that trouble him and he just doesn't want them out there.
But then we also have Randy Badazz, who said that all the albums through CONEY ISLAND would eventually see release...although he did not specify a time frame or a format.
I think a time is coming when there won't be any physical media; you'll just "subscribe" to a music service and all of your players will be connected to the "cloud" and you'll be able to hear whatever you want to hear, at a few cents per listen. It's a bleak prospect in some ways but I can see the writing on the wall, the way things are going. But that still doesn't mean that EVERYTHING will be available! Only what the artist and his/her heirs want to put out there. (Plus whatever pirated material there is, of course.)
Sad to say, we may have to wait until Herb is playing trumpet with the angels until we see some of his music released. And who knows, he might have already made his offspring promise not to go against his wishes even then.
Captaindave
Well-Known Member
Mike Blakesley said:
I agree completely. The Internet will rule the day - if it doesn't already - and movies, music, etc., will be received in the pay per view or pay per listen type format, or as downloads, or as some kind of subscription format, etc. We're just seeing the tip of the iceberg, folks. I think in the next few years, everything will have morphed in that direction completely.
I have often felt that libraries will go in a similar direction eventually.
Physical media is on the way out. And, it is a pretty big hurry to leave the room.
CherryStreet
Member
Captaindave said:
But it makes no sense. Where is the progress?! LP to CD, you can hear/see the strides in technology. VHS to DVD, clearly even Miss Higgins in Durban Australia can see the improvement from the old format.
But MP3 and/or Streaming Audio??!! How can we condone "stepping backwards"? Why do we "buy" into it? Even the best "streaming audio" is a lousy 320 kps!
Are people just willing to tolerate "substandard audio" after all of this progress?
And video! Don't get me started on ancient FLASH files! YouTube is also ancient & substandard people! We can do so much better.
And some people "listen" to stuff on YouTube like it was Hi-fidelity.
Steven J. Gross
Well-Known Member
CherryStreet said:
Bottom line is: the catalog should be released in full, Lonely Bull thru Coney Island, because that's what real fans would like. Leaving a few holes in it is just plain silly- and extremely frustrating.
Perhaps a complete box set would have been the best idea from the start.
Captain Bacardi
Well-Known Member
CherryStreet said:
A couple of years ago I had a chat with Randy Alpert about the whole Shout! Factory thing, as there were some complaints about the lack of advertising on the TJB catalog, and it was suggested that maybe another outfit should do the reissues. Randy said there was no way, because Herb had an exclusive contract with Shout! and that they simply cannot change who distributes the catalog. In other words, it's Shout! or no one. And again nothing gets released unless Herb wants it released.
And to clarify something Mike had brought up - the entire Herb catalog was digitized some time back and would eventually be released. BUT there was never any mention that they would all be released on a CD, just that they would get a digital reissue at some point. (Lani's catalog falls under the same category as well.)
Yes, I know we would all love to have a nice CD reissue with liner notes and original art work and all that stuff. But the bottom line is this is a business, and the sad fact is that many of the latter TJB albums simply weren't big sellers in their original release, and most likely only we diehards are aware of these albums to begin with. So the question is whether it's financially worth it to put out x-amount of copies of any of these albums and be able to make a profit from it, or even break even. You have to be realistic about this stuff. Outside of us on this forum, who would really but these albums? Sadly, not many would. That's just the fact, like it or not. There's a zillion CDs and reissues being put out every year and these latter TJB albums would just get lost in the jungle of CDs that are out there.
But I agree that a box set would completely solve this "issue". I would expect that to happen before any individual reissue of these latter albums.
Capt. Bacardi
...grounded in reality online...
I do have some fear of a box set though, because it would undoubtedly contain all the Tijuana Taxis and Spanish Fleas and Tastes of Honey we've all got 12 copies of already, but leave out those Sea is My Soils we all long for.
However, Shout Factory is doing some amazing stuff with projects other companies have left in the dust...especially on video. They picked up both of Garry Shandling's great cable series and put out complete box sets; they have been releasing one of my early guilty pleasures, Adam-12 in season-by-season sets, and so on. So they're probably willing to do more Herb items, but he just has to pull the switch on it.
However, Shout Factory is doing some amazing stuff with projects other companies have left in the dust...especially on video. They picked up both of Garry Shandling's great cable series and put out complete box sets; they have been releasing one of my early guilty pleasures, Adam-12 in season-by-season sets, and so on. So they're probably willing to do more Herb items, but he just has to pull the switch on it.
This thread is really not very timely anyway. Herb and Lani have a NEW disc coming out in the near future, and all of his energies are likely focused on that, not at reissuing old stuff that most people have forgotten.
Let's look forward to the anticipated promotion and touring in support of the new album - and if you need your fix of obscure TJB, dig out your vinyl and give it a spin.
Harry
Let's look forward to the anticipated promotion and touring in support of the new album - and if you need your fix of obscure TJB, dig out your vinyl and give it a spin.
Harry
Dave
Well-Known Member
One-hundred-years from now people are going to listen to their music--and very different music!--on something totally different!
YouTube is high-fidelity to most people, & for those who need "more rich sound", there's at least hooking up a decent speaker, or two to your computer... (Which I can do if not for the going-on-obsolence audio my RCA's are currently hooked-up to, though seldom, if ever have "anything" coming through them...!)
I would suspect, though, in response, to a computer's speaker or sound not being of "Premium Hi-Fi" quality, there's likely to be something marketed to hear your fav' music on, yet capable of--Who knows?--going right where your current stereo rig set-up is, in regards to what was mentioned to how physical media is on its way out...
In regards to another statement, I would not deem everything down-loaded as being "pirated"...
Aside from the "source" not being an artist's "official" one, that is some amateur web-meister, capable of putting his audio on the web, much like "radio broadcasts", if somebody has the "Sea Is My Soil's" and so-far-not-yet-available-on CD Baja Marimba Band, etc., if her has the stuff & wants to show it off & can do so cheaply, then he'll do, hopefully for our universal enjoyment!
Yes, hard-copy media: Going fast & furiously!
Dave
YouTube is high-fidelity to most people, & for those who need "more rich sound", there's at least hooking up a decent speaker, or two to your computer... (Which I can do if not for the going-on-obsolence audio my RCA's are currently hooked-up to, though seldom, if ever have "anything" coming through them...!)
I would suspect, though, in response, to a computer's speaker or sound not being of "Premium Hi-Fi" quality, there's likely to be something marketed to hear your fav' music on, yet capable of--Who knows?--going right where your current stereo rig set-up is, in regards to what was mentioned to how physical media is on its way out...
In regards to another statement, I would not deem everything down-loaded as being "pirated"...
Aside from the "source" not being an artist's "official" one, that is some amateur web-meister, capable of putting his audio on the web, much like "radio broadcasts", if somebody has the "Sea Is My Soil's" and so-far-not-yet-available-on CD Baja Marimba Band, etc., if her has the stuff & wants to show it off & can do so cheaply, then he'll do, hopefully for our universal enjoyment!
Yes, hard-copy media: Going fast & furiously!
Dave
Captain Bacardi
Well-Known Member
I'm also looking forward to the new CD and am hoping for a chance to see Herb & Lani during their tour.
As for the TJB albums (and solo Herb albums) that haven't been reissued - I am completely happy with the CD-R's that I made of those albums, and have my own rarities disc, as well as a variety of different flavors for whatever mood I'm in (vocal disc, jazz disc, hits disc, etc.). So while some of you insist on giving yourselves an ulcer about something you have no control over, I'll be kicking back listening to the music I enjoy!
Capt. Bacardi
As for the TJB albums (and solo Herb albums) that haven't been reissued - I am completely happy with the CD-R's that I made of those albums, and have my own rarities disc, as well as a variety of different flavors for whatever mood I'm in (vocal disc, jazz disc, hits disc, etc.). So while some of you insist on giving yourselves an ulcer about something you have no control over, I'll be kicking back listening to the music I enjoy!
Capt. Bacardi
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