What if "(They Long to Be) Close to You" Doesn't Hit?

[Vinylalbumcovers]

@Mark-T sparked this so it made me wonder...

Say "Close to You" doesn't do anything...somehow. Is it possible that "We've Only Just Begun" becomes the single to break Carpenters to a wider audience. I mentioned in the other thread that I think it could have. It just screams "hit" to me. It's got multiple hooks, Richard arranged it well, and Karen sings it perfectly too. As it was, it peaked at #2 and I think if "Close to You" hadn't broken them, "We've Only Just Begun" absolutely would have. It's just that undeniable IMHO.

What do you think?

Ed

 

[Matthew S]

As we all know, CTY was originally designed as a single only, to see how it would do before making another album. If it bombed, that would probably have been it. No WOJB. Not at A&M anyway.

 

[1969]

Say "Close to You" doesn't do anything...somehow.

Bacharach said it screamed #1 hit to him when Herb Alpert played it over the phone to him. So not possible that CTY does nothing. But if it did tank, that was their 2nd chance. They would’ve been cut loose from A&M and no WOJB.

 

[Mark-T]

WOJB was the record that drew me in. It has everything. In my mind, it's as perfect a record as they ever made.
But would it even have made it to a record if CTY wasn't a hit? I don't know if they would have been given another chance. Maybe Chris May can elaborate.

 

[Portlander]

I loved CTY when it came out in the summer of 1970 but I was totally clueless as to who was performing the song. At age 13 there were more important things in my world like sports, admiring cars, collecting baseball cards and being preoccupied with the cute girls in school that wouldn't give me the time of day! The first time I heard WOJB there was an instant connection and I thought it was the greatest song I'd ever heard on the radio.

I asked my mother who the band was and she told me it was a group called the Carpenters and I remember being confused over the name. Shortly after I saw the Carpenters on the Ed Sullivan Show performing WOJB with Karen playing the drums and I was instantly hooked and temporarily forgot about the girls in school. A week later I was in the record store checking out the CTY album and finally put the puzzle together and realized they were the artist for both songs!

I also remember being a little disappointed when "For All We Know" was first played on the radio because it was slow and too short in duration after being totally spoiled by CTY and WOJB.

 

[Harry]

^^ My story is similar to Portlander's except I heard "Ticket To Ride" on the radio and wanted to record it on reel-to-reel, but never heard it again as it was dropped from the rotation on that station. When I first heard "Close To You", I was mesmerized with this 'new' Bacharach song and it took awhile before I connected that song with "Ticket To Ride". And I instantly bought "Close To You" as soon as I saw it in a record department of a discount store. Seeing it on the A&M label made it even more special, as I knew that it came from my favorite label.

I instantly bought the CLOSE TO YOU album too that fall and was puzzled as to why "Ticket To Ride" wasn't on there. And my sister found a copy of OFFERING languishing in a record store and bought it for me as a Christmas present. Still have it. Still love it.

 

[Portlander]

Sadly, I didn't grasp the whole "Ticket To Ride" LP release until someone informed me that it was pre CTY material formerly known as "Offering". I was already focused on the "Carpenters" album and the releases of "Rainy Days And Mondays" and "Superstar" and actually do not remember ever hearing TTR on the radio.

 

[Harry]

Sadly, I didn't grasp the whole "Ticket To Ride" LP release until someone informed me that it was pre CTY material formerly known as "Offering". I was already focused on the "Carpenters" album and the releases of "Rainy Days And Mondays" and "Superstar" and actually do not remember ever hearing TTR on the radio.

Yep. I consider myself lucky to have heard it when I did.

 

[Portlander]

Oh, and back to the original question. If CTY ended up being only a moderate hit I think Herb and Jerry would have still given the green light to WOJB because it was instant ear candy and A&M was in a Top 40 drought at the time with nothing to lose. If CTY was a total flop, I'll have to defer to Ed, Chris, Mike or Harry for their thoughts because I have nothing!

 

[Harry]

Too much guesswork on all of these "what-if" scenarios. The fact is things developed the way they did.

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

Too much guesswork on all of these "what-if" scenarios. The fact is things developed the way they did.

Just a topic of discussion. Nothing more.

Ed

 

[Harry]

Didn't mean to stifle discussion, I was trying to say that 'I' didn't have any ideas about the topic. I can't imagine it NOT being a hit.

 

[newvillefan]

If CTY ended up being only a moderate hit I think Herb and Jerry would have still given the green light to WOJB because it was instant ear candy and A&M was in a Top 40 drought at the time with nothing to lose. If CTY was a total flop, I'll have to defer to Ed, Chris, Mike or Harry for their thoughts because I have nothing!

I think even if CTY had been a flop, they would have given them one more shot. Three strikes kind of thing? I can’t remember how long after the release of CTY they started recording sessions for Begun. If it was in fairly rapid succession, I’d say Herb would’ve definitely held onto them, because that record was a surefire hit.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

I think Bacharach's earlier hits paved the way for Close To You, in particular Herb Alpert's version of "This Guy's In Love With You." That song provided both Herb and A&M with their first #1 single, and Bacharach had had dozens of other hits by that time too, so they knew the potential in CTY, especially after Herb played the tune over the phone to Burt and he declared it a "home run." In a business where there are no sure things, that was about as sure a thing as you can get.

I'm not sure if "We've Only Just Begun" would've been a big hit if CTY hadn't opened the door for Carpenters. It's a possibility, but it doesn't have quite as much of that instantly hummable foot-tapping charm as CTY does. It benefited from that foundation.

I do think, even if CTY hadn't been a hit, the duo wouldn't have been cut loose from A&M. After all, hit or no hit, the Close To You album shows remarkable musical growth from their previous album, and A&M was known for nurturing their artists until the right song came along. I think, even if they'd had another flop, Herb Alpert would have said "Let's just wait and see. Something will happen." (Look how long they waited with Peter Frampton, and look at the results they had with him.)

 

[newvillefan]

I’m just thinking about ‘Begun’ now and it brought back a lovely memory of my late dad. Some years ago I lived in Spain and he made the journey over to see me for a week’s holiday. On the first night, the weather was warm and balmy and we were sitting back relaxing with a cold beer in my garden, and chatting away with the windows wide open and the music playing on shuffle. ‘Begun’ came on and he fell silent for the entire song. At the end, he just sat up in his chair and said “that girl had a beautiful voice”.

 

[goodjeans]

I’m just thinking about ‘Begun’ now and it brought back a lovely memory of my late dad. Some years ago I lived in Spain and he made the journey over to see me for a week’s holiday. On the first night, the weather was warm and balmy and we were sitting back relaxing with a cold beer in my garden, and chatting away with the windows wide open and the music playing on shuffle. ‘Begun’ came on and he fell silent for the entire song. At the end, he just sat up in his chair and said “that girl had a beautiful voice”.

Thank you for sharing this beautiful memory.

 

[kprather]

Originally the plan was for "Help" to be the follow-up single to "Ticket", before "Close to You" came along. How might that have changed things?

 

[crescentnoon]

I just want to apologize for being a nuisance - I didn't intend to upset anyone on the other thread. My apologies to you all.

 

[newvillefan]

Originally the plan was for "Help" to be the follow-up single to "Ticket", before "Close to You" came along. How might that have changed things?

‘Help’ wouldn’t have done any better than ‘Ticket’. It’s not a hit record, just a nice album track.

 

[Portlander]

I just want to apologize for being a nuisance - I didn't intend to upset anyone on the other thread. My apologies to you all.

I had no issues with your opinions and I personally applaud a respectful exchange of ideas and views. You're are welcome to sit at my table in the high school cafeteria anytime!

 

[JohnFB]

So many "what-ifs", so much speculation, so few possible answers, so much tantalizing fun...

What if CTY had charted out of the top 10, or top 20, or top 40 - would it have been a failure, a bomb, a tank job? How high must it have charted to insure the release of WOJB?

What if WOJB had been released first?
How well would it have had to chart to insure the follow-up release of CTY?
And would WOJB have reached no.1, as it deserved, if it had been released 1st? And how well would CTY have then done?

What if DON'T BE AFRAID and/or ALL OF MY LIFE had been released before TTR off of OFFERING? Would they have succeeded better than TTR, and how would this have effected the choice of songs on the CTY album, and the order of release of WOJB & the song CTY? Would TTR have done better released 2nd or 3rd instead of 1st?

What if 2 or 3 of the above OFFERING songs had charted well. How would this have effected the choice of personnel used as players on the CTY album, with less pressure for a big hit?
(Be very careful with this one!)

 

[Kacfan]

I think even if CTY had been a flop, they would have given them one more shot. Three strikes kind of thing? I can’t remember how long after the release of CTY they started recording sessions for Begun. If it was in fairly rapid succession, I’d say Herb would’ve definitely held onto them, because that record was a surefire hit.

Am I making this up….. I remember reading or hearing a Richard interview where he said that at the time both CTY and WOJB were ready and thoughts were given to maybe changing the order and releasing WOJB first. Has anyone else read this?

 

[newvillefan]

Am I making this up….. I remember reading or hearing a Richard interview where he said that at the time both CTY and WOJB were ready and thoughts were given to maybe changing the order and releasing WOJB first. Has anyone else read this?

Doesn’t ring a bell but I know they had the same thought about ‘Superstar’ versus ‘Rainy Days and Mondays’.

 

[Portlander]

Am I making this up….. I remember reading or hearing a Richard interview where he said that at the time both CTY and WOJB were ready and thoughts were given to maybe changing the order and releasing WOJB first. Has anyone else read this?

Ray Coleman's book states that "We've Only Just Begun" was recorded in May of 1970 and just before the release of "Close To You". In addition, A&M executives were uncertain of the potential success of "Close To You" so they allowed program directors to take their pick of that song or the flipside which was "I Kept On Loving You" with the release being promoted as a "double A side". The radio stations immediately chose CTY and the Carpenters were on their way to stardom.

 

[Nemily]

It is chronicled a little bit different in Carpenters The Musical Legacy. The single CTY was released May 14, 1970. Begun was recorded June 13, 1970 (rhythm tracks), July 17, 1970 (Clarinet) and July 20, 1970 (orchestra). On July 22, 1970 CTY the Single went No 1.

After that it was a scramble to get an album together.