Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and The Carpenters

[A&Mguyfromwayback]

It all depends how you choose to define the word 'rock'.....it's incredibly subjective, kind of goofy, VERY elitist, and ultimately pointless. The IF I WERE A CARPENTER album is probably the Carpenters' best claim and connection to being in with this particular in-crowd, since they were never able to do Rick Rubin-type projects. I have all these friends who try to get Toto nominated every year and always come up short, because those guys are (gasp) studio musicians, incredibly versatile, and very musical. Whatever Toto's musical legacy may or may not be doesn't even matter - it's the image; they're not 'unwashed' or edgy enough. Yet most every year a one or two-hit doo-wop group gets in the hall. Donna won a Grammy for Rock vocal, but was never hip enough for the party till now and is now only hip enough to be a bridesmaid every year. Whatever.......!

 

[aaflyer98]

A&Mguyfromwayback wrote:
Donna won a Grammy for Rock vocal, but was never hip enough for the party till now and is now only hip enough to be a bridesmaid every year. Whatever.......!

Well said. Donna's music is very rock influenced but no one wants to admit they like her. They know she has talent, they just won't admit they like her.
Donna has the disco tag like the Carpenters have the goody two shoes image. It stays with them, even though the music is so much more than that.
I hope the Carpenters do get into the hall of fame. When ABBA got in it gave me hope for K&R.
But...whatever happens will be ok.

 

[Daniel Perales]

...so it really isn't all about the music?

I just took a look at the other people nominated. WTF?

I mean, no offense to any of those nominated...but tell me HOW LL Cool J or Chic contributed anything lasting to rock and roll?

It's not about the music. It's about being in the right clique. If the right people see you as cool, you get nominated. If you happen to be a favorite of the right people in that group,you get inducted. It's essentially a high school mentality.

Well, the group "Chicago" still haven't been inducted, yet (and they been around the music scene as long as some people are alive).



Danny

 

[manofsteel1979]

Well, the group "Chicago" still haven't been inducted, yet (and they been around the music scene as long as some people are alive).



Danny

I didn't know that. Again, it's mystifying who the RRHOF lets in and who they ignore.

Has Chicago ever been nominated?

 

[Daniel Perales]

Well, the group "Chicago" still haven't been inducted, yet (and they been around the music scene as long as some people are alive).



Danny

I didn't know that. Again, it's mystifying who the RRHOF lets in and who they ignore.

Has Chicago ever been nominated?

I don't think that they ever had.



Danny

 

[Dave]

Surprisingly Hall & Oates have not yet been nominated either... Nor, Rush (--a group I think I'd like to see there, eh?)

I thought Iron Maiden & KISS would'a also made a "profile" there by now, but no-such-luck...

So as far as omissions go, Karen & Rich aren't alone...

(& how much might this 'hall' cost to expand?!)

A story on at least NINE hopefully future nominees, who have still missed-out on this "ultimate honor", right here:

http://www.popeater.com/2010/10/05/rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-snubs/?icid=main|main|dl2|sec1_lnk3|176286



Dave

 

[manofsteel1979]

Surprisingly Hall & Oates have not yet been nominated either... Nor, Rush (--a group I think I'd like to see there, eh?)

I thought Iron Maiden & KISS would'a also made a "profile" there by now, but no-such-luck...

So as far as omissions go, Karen & Rich aren't alone...

(& how much might this 'hall' cost to expand?!)

A story on at least NINE hopefully future nominees, who have still missed-out on this "ultimate honor", right here:

http://www.popeater.com/2010/10/05/rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-snubs/?icid=main|main|dl2|sec1_lnk3|176286



Dave

Reading the comments someone mentioned that The Eagles have also been snubbed?! Is this true?

If so,NOW I'm REALLY mad!!

 

[Mark-T]

Seriously, the Eagles! I find no reason to dispute their inclusion. Love them!

 

[song4u]

Heard Paul Stanley (from KISS) on the radio this morning. When congratulated on KISS finally being inducted to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame he said "Well when it takes 14 years to get invited to the party, they obviously don't want you there."

 

[MissK]

Here is a great article re: the RRHOF. This guy has got several good Carpenters articles.
http://splashingrocks.blogspot.com/2014/02/no-room-for-nice-in-rock-and-roll-hall.html

As for me (I'm new to this forum) I think it better for people to wonder why the Carpenters are not in the Hall of Fame than wonder why they are.
They're in the right place.

 

[A&M Retro]

Great article, MissK! And welcome!

Bob

 

[Yamaguchi]

Here is a great article re: the RRHOF. This guy has got several good Carpenters articles.
http://splashingrocks.blogspot.com/2014/02/no-room-for-nice-in-rock-and-roll-hall.html

As for me (I'm new to this forum) I think it better for people to wonder why the Carpenters are not in the Hall of Fame than wonder why they are.
They're in the right place.

Hi, I'm the Splashing Rocks guy. The reason I feel so strongly about the Carp's omission from RRHO is that they have been continually dissed and underrated by the dominant music culture and, given the quality and world-wide influence of their gorgeous music, the omission is an outrage. Although, at the same time, putting Karen there would be like putting Snow White in a cat house.

 

[A&M Retro]

Well, either way, you did a great job explaining your position. They should be in there based on record sales alone. But they're not the only ones being shut out. They're just not rock and roll, but they are pop music at its finest.

 

[BarryT60]

I don't like the phrase "Pop" Hall of Fame.

In Nashville, we have the Country Music Hall of Fame - which really has a reason to be... That's a particular genre that is very well defined.

Perhaps there needs to be a Grammy Hall of Fame - - or a Billboard Hall of Fame. Where do artists such as Barbra Streisand, and Frank Sinatra fit in? I suppose you could say "pop" but that phrase is almost a dead phrase in today's music vernacular. I think that's probably why everyone thinks the Rock Hall of Fame makes sense for K & R - particularly, since we had that phrase "Rock Era" pounded into our heads by Casey Kasem all those years on American Top 40.

It's a Hall of Fame conundrum... that's for sure... I think that as a Carpenter fan - all we really want is a little more recognition - - from the critics - and from the public... Another shot at getting "officially" recognized by an industry that was certainly blessed to have had such talent grace it's airwaves and venues. Recognition. Finally. Rightful recognition for their contribution.

 

[A&M Retro]

I don't think it's going to happen, but I couldn't agree with you more, Barry.

 

[MissK]

I don't like the phrase "Pop" Hall of Fame.

In Nashville, we have the Country Music Hall of Fame - which really has a reason to be... That's a particular genre that is very well defined.

Perhaps there needs to be a Grammy Hall of Fame - - or a Billboard Hall of Fame. Where do artists such as Barbra Streisand, and Frank Sinatra fit in? I suppose you could say "pop" but that phrase is almost a dead phrase in today's music vernacular. I think that's probably why everyone thinks the Rock Hall of Fame makes sense for K & R - particularly, since we had that phrase "Rock Era" pounded into our heads by Casey Kasem all those years on American Top 40.

It's a Hall of Fame conundrum... that's for sure... I think that as a Carpenter fan - all we really want is a little more recognition - - from the critics - and from the public... Another shot at getting "officially" recognized by an industry that was certainly blessed to have had such talent grace it's airwaves and venues. Recognition. Finally. Rightful recognition for their contribution.

 

[MissK]

There is a Hit Parade Hall of Fame but I think the criteria is a bit loose. The C's were inducted the second year.
http://hitparadehalloffame.com

 

[John Tkacik]

Another 2 years have passed and still no nomination. As was stated previously, I hope that Richard will be alive to experience the day that CarpenterS are nominated.

 

[CraigGA]

Maybe, if some of the musicians who were influenced by the Carpenters ban together some recognition could be gained for a nomination. One can't dispute their influence and handprint as American artists and their worldwide influence still seem to this day.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

Chicago was inducted this year though!

 

[toeknee4bz]

Chicago was inducted this year though!

Yeah, but that's another discussion entirely. The 'Chicago' that was to be inducted was supposedly the original line-up: Robert Lamm, James Pankow, Lee Loughnane, Walter Parazaider (all who are, believe it or not, still current members of the band after nearly 49 years as of September 2016), Terry Kath (who died in 1978), Peter Cetera (who went solo in 1985) and Danny Seraphine (who left in 1990).

Now, consider this fact: Jason Scheff, bassist and co-lead vocalist who replaced Peter Cetera in 1985, has put in over 30 years with the band, nearly twice what his iconic predecessor did. Doesn't that count for something? And Jason Scheff has had his share of Chicago hits as well, "Will You Still Love Me", "If She Would Have Been Faithful", "We Can Last Forever" and "What Kind of Man Would I Be?" to name a few. Bill Champlin, who played keyboards and occasional guitar in the band from their epic comeback album "Chicago 16" in 1982 until his departure in 2009, spent 28 years in the band, contributing his own hits to the late 80s Chicago catalogue, most notably "Look Away", "I Don't Wanna Live Without Your Love" and "Chasin' The Wind". Now having said all of this... All of these years of performing their own hits as well as echoing their predecessors' hits should count for SOMEthing. Shouldn't these guys be recognized as well?

 

[KJKennedy]

I think while the current generation Alt rockers openly praise the Carpenters, the oldsters in charge of the RRHOF still think it would damage their own cred if they were to allow them in, fearing their organization wouldn't seem as hip and edgy. In a way they're like the critics back in the day.
Privately they all probably have LPs and Carpenters on their ipods.

 

[Yamaguchi]

I think while the current generation Alt rockers openly praise the Carpenters, the oldsters in charge of the RRHOF still think it would damage their own cred if they were to allow them in, fearing their organization wouldn't seem as hip and edgy. In a way they're like the critics back in the day.
Privately they all probably have LPs and Carpenters on their ipods.

I have pretty much given up on the calcified Philistenes who control the R&R Hall of Fame recognizing the Carpenters' musical greatness and global popularity/influence and granting them the spot they so clearly deserve in any respectable pop/rock hall of fame. Nonetheless, it is still worthwhile to record and reiterate the greatness of Karen and Richard's legacy, which it is fair to say now has reached the state where they are genuine "classics" -- i.e., their music is now classical. Just last month, popular artists in opposite hemispheres of the globe -- Eurovision sensation Dami Im in Australia/South Korea and Isabella Taviani in Brazil -- released albums devoted exclusively to Carpenters classics, following other artists from Japan, Thailand, UK, and U.S. who have done so as well. Anyway, a piece in my Splashing Rocks blog recently documented how, in their peak commercial period of 1973-75, the Carpenters were almost certainly the most successful pop/rock artists in the WORLD. http://splashingrocks.blogspot.com/2016/02/when-carpenters-were-on-top-of-world-of.html. How a group that achieved that kind of superiority against the incredibly talented competition of that era (Elton, McCartney, Rod Stewart, etc.) could be excluded from any credible R&RHOF is ludicrous.

 

[Yamaguchi]

I have pretty much given up on the calcified Philistenes who control the R&R Hall of Fame recognizing the Carpenters' musical greatness and global popularity/influence and granting them the spot they so clearly deserve in any respectable pop/rock hall of fame. Nonetheless, it is still worthwhile to record and reiterate the greatness of Karen and Richard's legacy, which it is fair to say now has reached the state where they are genuine "classics" -- i.e., their music is now classical. Just last month, popular artists in opposite hemispheres of the globe -- Eurovision sensation Dami Im in Australia/South Korea and Isabella Taviani in Brazil -- released albums devoted exclusively to Carpenters classics, following other artists from Japan, Thailand, UK, and U.S. who have done so as well. Anyway, a piece in my Splashing Rocks blog recently documented how, in their peak commercial period of 1973-75, the Carpenters were almost certainly the most successful pop/rock artists in the WORLD. http://splashingrocks.blogspot.com/2016/02/when-carpenters-were-on-top-of-world-of.html. How a group that achieved that kind of superiority against the incredibly talented competition of that era (Elton, McCartney, Rod Stewart, etc.) could be excluded from any credible R&RHOF is ludicrous.

P.S. I love Chicago, they were fantastic background music when I was in college at Penn State, and they richly deserve their admission to the HOF. Their big group/brass rock sound was special.

 

[Tim L]

I'd have to strongly disagree there. Chic contained Nile Rodgers, one of the best producers to ever twist a knob; they had the best selling single in the history of Atlantic Records ("Le Freak"); they were one of the few groups who actually put out quality music with a unique sound during the disco era. They also had Tony Thompson, one of the best drummers ever who played on many a rock record as a studio musician, and of course Bernard Edwards on bass, who contributed some of the funkiest bass lines ever put to wax.

LL Cool J -- well, he's not my cup of tea at all, but he is one of the most well known rap artists and laid the foundation for a myriad of other artists who came after him. He was also one of the first rappers to cross over into another facet of the entertainment business (acting) thus paving the way for others to follow that path too. Respect him or not, he was a groundbreaker. Whether you like rap or not, it IS a driving force in rock music today, has been responsible for hundreds of millions of record sales, and has been embraced by lots of rock bands. (Linkin Park, anyone?)

None of this is intended to diminish the Carpenters' talent, or their contributions to pop music. It's just that if I was making a list of rock and roll artists, they're one of the last names I would consider because their music just doesn't seem like rock and roll to me. That's just my 2 cents.