Carpenters - the mono mixes

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

I have a question everyone, about the mono singles

I have the single 45 Beechwood 45789 (have not reveiwed it yet) it is the red label it says in very small writing Promo copy not for sale & says Mono time 3:05 #2405
then on the other side Same Song it says Stereo time 3:05 #2405-S. This appears to be a mono/stereo.

My question is I also have another red label single 45 for Your Baby Doesnt Love You Anymore also says Promo Copy Not For Sale but it states Stereo #AM-2620 and the other side Same Song also says Stereo #AM-2620.

Could the label be wrong on the Your Baby Single? Both these singles look exactly the same, both Promo's but the baby one doesn't say mono, could it still be mono on one side but mismarked?

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Ok I'm so excited that I have to write this. I am totally hooked now on these singles. Having alot of fun.

You'll never guess what I found, I had forgot that I had it, but I found a single 45 of Solitaire I had this when I was alot younger it is the stereo version with Please Mr Postman on the flip.

So I decided to give it a spin & make a Wav file exactly the same way I made the Wav with the Mono Single I have of Solitaire.

I did a side by side comparo of the 2 and it is like night & day. It is so hard to put into words without sounding like I am dramatizing it. Beleive me when I tell you that the Mono Single is so up front vocally for Karen that Karen sounds 100% better than the stereo version. It is quite unbelievable.

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Just wanted to point out that when I did my full review above of the 7 Mono Singles on this thread, My turntable was connected to my home stereo system which is a 5.1 dolby digital receiver with Bose full surround sound, all connections were correct & I did hear the differences I mentioned on my review.

Just wanted to clarify that with everyone.

 

[davidgra]

>My question is I also have another red label single 45 for Your Baby
>Doesnt Love You Anymore also says Promo Copy Not For Sale but it
>states Stereo #AM-2620 and the other side Same Song also says
>Stereo #AM-2620.

I'd bet that the "Your Baby" single really was stereo on both sides -- by the beginning of 1984 (when that single was released), much of top 40 radio had moved to FM, for which stereo was the norm, and even many of the big AM music stations had started broadcasting in stereo (although the stereo AM receiver never did really catch on, I think).

The "Your Baby" single was also, I think, the last vinyl 45 rpm single commercially released from a "new" Carpenters album. There was a vinyl 45 rpm single for "Honolulu City Lights" in 1987, but it wasn't connected to any album at the time (since LOVELINES didn't come out until 1989). I know there were some promo singles released in the '80s (including a very cool 4-track single from YESTERDAY ONCE MORE), but "Your Baby" and "Honolulu" were the last of it, as far as I know.

David

 

[CraigGA]

Honolulu City Lights was on the 'memories' A&M Issue, from Anthology, I believe. I once had a copy of it given to me from a local radio station with the printed record sleeve, (I do not believe it was a promotional copy) but later gave it to a fellow Carpenter buddy.

Craig

 

[Murray]

I have the Honolulu City Lights single, and it was part of the "Memories" series. I heard the song on a local AC radio station back in '87, but I couldn't find a copy of the 45, and none of the record stores in town was willing to special order it. Finally, I wrote to Richard and asked him for a copy. Surprisingly, he mailed me one, and even autographed the sleeve. Unfortunately, the @#*% post office broke the record, so I was never able to play it!

Murray

 

[Harry]

I was really confused by that "Honolulu City Lights" release. I recall being in a Nissan dealership awaiting some salesperson to arrange some numbers with his manager and went over to play with their optional radio display board. It was tuned to an Allentown, PA beautiful music station, WFMZ, and this record started that I'd never heard before. Suddenly I recognized Karen's lead vocal and the overdubbed harmonies in the chorus. Having heard every album of theirs over and over again, I knew it had to be a 'new' recording, but just didn't know what to do about it. I considered calling the Allentown station but never did. I'm pretty sure I asked the Program Director where I worked, but he said he hadn't heard anything about a new Carpenters record. The thought of listening for hours on end to a beautiful music station wasn't in the cards, so I just let it be one of those things I wondered about. After that one hearing in a noisy dealership, I was unable to really make out what the title might be. In my confused brain, I heard, "...each time on a loo-loo city lights..." which made absolutely no sense.

It wasn't until two years later that I actually had the song, as it was included on the LOVELINES album. Since there was no internet usage at the time, I didn't have access to the worldwide knowledge base that we have today, so it was just one of those things that one wondered about with no real answer. Thus I didn't know about the Japanese releases of the songs "Slow Dance" on TREASURES or "Honolulu City Lights" on ANTHOLOGY until many years later.

And it was just a few years ago, when an exchange of recordings led me to finally owning a copy of the 45 of "Honolulu City Lights" on the A&M Memories label.

Harry
NP: "Honolulu City Lights" from LOVELINES, by Carpenters

 

[davidgra]

I found the "Honolulu City Lights" 45 rpm single purely back accident one day -- I was on my way to a friend's house for dinner (probably in spring of 1987) and I stopped at a record store near his house. I was in the habit of looking in the "C" section of the 45s, from years of conditioning, because you never knew what you might find.

And there was a picture sleeve that said Carpenters across the front, with a song I had never heard! I picked up every copy the store had (three of them) and went to look for the new album, which wasn't there. I figured there must be a new album on the way...

Anyway, I made it to my friend's house and made him listen to the single about 10 times before he made me stop.

The next day I went to every record store in Austin, asking about a new Carpenters album. Nobody knew anything, and most stores didn't even have the new single. For months and months I searched for the new Carpenters album which I was sure was coming, and nothing ever turned up.

It was during that search that I did find TREASURES, with "Slow Dance," from Japan. That only left me more confused -- where did "Honolulu City Lights" come from?

Of course, that morning in 1989 when I discovered LOVELINES finally came. I had not heard that there was a new Carpenters' release on the schedule, which was a little unusual since at the time I had a friend who owned a record store, but he called me up on a Tuesday morning and told me to get to the store as fast as I could.

The funny thing is that all this talk about these late-'80s releases made me dig through a box of stuff from that era, and I found two Carpenters cassette singles from 1989 that I had COMPLETELY forgotten about -- they are both from the "A&M Memories Cassette Single" line, and one has "Close to You" b/w "Ticket to Ride," and the other has "We've Only Just Begun" b/w "For All We Know."

Makes me wonder what else I could find if I did a little more digging...

David

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

David, do you still have 3 copies of that single, Honolulu Nights?

I'd pay you for a copy if you care to depart with it. That's a 45 that I don't have in my collection.

 

[Harry]

Revisiting an old thread with an update. Just by chance I found a seller on eBay who'd listed a bunch of 45s for sale, most stereo/mono promos, and mostly those I didn't have. It was a reasonable price with no competition, so I bid on them and won. They arrived just the other day and once again I've delved into some more mono mixes. One nice thing this seller did was include a couple of extra 45s that were not judged as highly on condition, but one of those has turned out to be my favorite discovery - "Ticket To Ride", the original stock copy #1142. It was backed with "Your Wonderful Parade" and both are in mono.

I don't know which came first, the OFFERING album or the "Ticket To Ride" single, but these two versions are very different. The first thing one notices is that the single has most of the opening piano/orchestral opening chopped off. It begins with just the final two bars of the piano intro before Karen starts singing, "I think I'm gonna be sad,..." But even those two bars sound different from what I've been hearing all these years with the album mix. It sounds like the first bar is the same and the second one is doubled or augmented in some way to make it higher or stronger - hard to describe. The lead vocal by Karen here sound more echoed than on the original album track, and more enveloped into the mix - not like the other mono singles I've described, where the vocal seems more forefront. No this one is integrated into the mix, though highlighted with the echo - again, hard to describe. But for someone who's only heard the stereo mix for thirty-plus years, this is a lot of fun, hearing something different. At first I though the fade-out was longer, but it's not. Side-by-side comparisons reveal that the fade is the same on both - I think perhaps I'm listening too closely! ONe thing really noticeable is the way Richard's piano is relegated to the background here. He almost sounds like he's in the next studio down the hall with the door open. It's not much different in stereo on the album, but because it's isolated in the right channel, it sounds more present. In mono, it's overpowered by all else that's going on.

The flip side, "Your Wonderful Parade" doesn't sound all that different in mono, but the phasing drum riffs at the end don't segue into "Someday" like the album does.

Two more early mono promos were in this batch, "We've Only Just Begun" and "For All We Know". Like many of the others described earlier, the vocals sound a bit more forefront with the backing instruments tamed into the mono mix. Occasionally something will sound a little different from what we've been used to in stereo, but nothing dramatic.

"Please Mr. Postman" was a revelation - not so much in mono but on the stereo side. I'd heard before that there was supposed to be some kind 'single mix' that had never appeared on an album, but had never heard it. It was included in this bunch, and this whole 45 is an anomaly. The stereo mix is indeed different than what appeared on HORIZON. It sounds like it's been CSG'ed on the stereo single, giving it that out-of-phase quality that we've come to know and hate. The single is EQ'ed strangely too, all mid-rangey and mushy with no real presence. Listening to the album mix is like hearing the group in your living room. Playing the single sounds like you're listening to them on the radio. The mono side is EQ'ed just as badly, but because it's mono, there's no annoying CSG processing. Which brings up the anomaly: if there's a mono side, why do CSG processing in the first place? By the way - there's no mention of the CSG processing on the label, but it sure sounds like it to me.

So there you have it - more fun with mono. Now I need to try to find "Close To You", "Superstar" and "Rainy Days And Mondays" in mono form and I think I'll have the great bulk of them.

Harry
...monaurally yours, online...

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Wow Harry this was a cool find. Now I beleive you are way passing me up on those mono's.

I still stand firm that there is something going on with those monos' & there a great way to re-visit all those 45's.

Great find!!!!

I was not aware of the Please Mr Postman single.

I have about 2 or 3 of these singles 45's, maybe I need to re-listen to them & see If I have one of these. What was the flip side to this 45? What is the label # on this Please Mr Postman? So I can see if I have this.

 

[Harry]

"Please Mr. Postman" is 1646-S in stereo and 1646 in mono.

"Ticket To Ride"/"Your Wonderful Parade" is 1142.

"We've Only Just Begun" is 1217-S in stereo and 1217 in mono.

"For All We Know" is 1243-S in stereo and 1243 in mono.

I only wish that a couple of these were in better shape. Some of them have some unfortunate loud pops.

Harry
...about to haed to work, online...

 

[CraigGA]

Harry: I always thought of the single mix from Please Mr. Postman as a way to give the song a sixties sound. It also sounds more energetic especially with the claps, drums, and vocal doubling at the entrance of the song that is not heard in the LP version. On the single at the record stores, This Masquerade was the flip side, which since both in stereo and there were still many non-stereo units around then, could be the reason for the processing you describe or the DJ promotional copy you bid on.

BTW: Happy Days was the big TV show then, creating a mood for 50's and 60's sounding music as American Graffiti introduced in '73. This version of Please Mr. Postman ensured the Carpenters of a hit, who at that time were at the top of their commercial career. I remember hearing this voted on American Bandstand on rate a record with a version from the Boone Family the week PMP was released as a single from the Carpenters. I first heard this song on Tues. morning two days before Thanksgiving in 1974. As we know, this song became number one the second week of 1975 on Billboard's charts and become the single of the year in Japan in 1975, and the third second song to become a number one hit both the original Motown artist and its cover by a white artist. Although this song was not musically creative, Karen's alto voice personified the sixties sound making this one of their largest hits.

Craig

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

I have 2 Please Mr Postman 45's, I didn't listen to them cause I figured they were the same. So tell me why they have different #'s

Here's what I have.

Please Mr Postman 1646-S w/ flip being This Masquerade
Please Mr Postman 8593-S w/ flip being Solitaire

I don't have the mono of this. I never owned the original LP of Horizons but I recently bought a sealed copy of this LP but have not opened it yet.


Also I have 45 of We've Only Just Begun # 1217 (Doesn't have S or M next to it just 1217 at the bottom w tanish label. flip side is All of my Life.

 

[W.B.]

I don't know which came first, the OFFERING album or the "Ticket To Ride" single...

Evidently, the LP came first -- being as the 45 bore the legend "(From the A&M album SP-4205)."

 

[Rudy]

I have 2 Please Mr Postman 45's, I didn't listen to them cause I figured they were the same. So tell me why they have different #'s

Here's what I have.

Please Mr Postman 1646-S w/ flip being This Masquerade
Please Mr Postman 8593-S w/ flip being Solitaire

The lower number (1646) would have been the original single release. 8593 would put it in something like a reissue series (like Forget-Me-Nots, Memories, etc...or it may just be a standard label). 8594 I think was another Carpenters single reissues as well.

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Right Rudy, Since I have registered here this past year, I have really learned alot about numbering & labels & such. Thanks to you all you guys here. Rudy your right my one verison of Please Mr P 8593 is the memories label reissue.

Since this thread I have come to realize that I do have the original version of Please Mr Postman that Harry was talking about. I have the original A & M label #1646-S However the flip is This Masquerade, I don't have the mono version. But in any case I do have the version that Harry talked about:

"Please Mr. Postman" was a revelation - not so much in mono but on the stereo side. I'd heard before that there was supposed to be some kind 'single mix' that had never appeared on an album, but had never heard it. It was included in this bunch, and this whole 45 is an anomaly. The stereo mix is indeed different than what appeared on HORIZON. It sounds like it's been CSG'ed on the stereo single, giving it that out-of-phase quality that we've come to know and hate. The single is EQ'ed strangely too, all mid-rangey and mushy with no real presence. Listening to the album mix is like hearing the group in your living room. Playing the single sounds like you're listening to them on the radio."

So it was cool to hear this version although I wish my 45 copy was a little cleaner, it's got some surface noise to it must have been played alot

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

I finally got my hands on the original Promo 45 of "Santa Claus Is Comin' To Town" I totally recomend this if you get the chance to purchase this.

To confirm what Harry previously wrote, I can concur exactly. The Stereo side has that HAECO-CSG processing (it's evident at first glance)& it is wild to hear this version. It's like the backing vocals are all over the place, the oohhs from both Richard & Karen on overdubs are incredible there actually more evident & in some parts you can actually hear Richard's vocals like he was right in the room with you, ooohing on the left side, Karen on the right but feeling like there just coming from everwhere, it's very wild to hear this. But unlike Harry said, I find this version very listenable.

The mono side is also great, very clean, no processing sound, just a clean original version, different than the re-mix I' m so use to hearing. The mono side tames it all together & yes Karen's vocal is more upfront sounding to me.

 

[coolvox]

Man....I feel so left out! I
have been reading the mono posts
for months, it really sounds
exciting! I wish there was a
site to order these unique
recordings.
Jim

 

[andywithaz]

I finally got mono copy of a Carpenter's single and it is Hurting Each Other. It is in M/NM shape with about 2% snap, crackle, and pop. The only place that it has wear on it is where the needle drops down at the start. Since it is scratched, I can't tell but I think that maybe I hear Karen's breath. It would be nice because Karen's breath can only be heard on the remixes. It is packaged in an A&M slip cover but it is the cover with records surrounding the hole in the middle. Is this the orginal cover

I also have the Honolulu (sp?) City Lights Single w/ I just Fall in Love Again on the B side. This is my only single that is warped . I have about 20 Singles that that range from We've Only Just Begun up to Those Good Old Dreams. Too bad I don't have all of them and none of them are in their original sleeves. Almost all the singles are that way. Did anybody save the orginal sleeves for 45 singles

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Revisiting an old thread. I found a discovery today when I recvd the 45 single of Ticket to Ride/Your Wonderful Parade #1142 the label color is the usual goldish/tanish color, says Almo Music Corp (ascap) Time 2:45 (1881) The run-off area of the 45 vinyl is this: Starts with a Triangle shape then 78673-X

If anyone has this 45 can you take a listen to Your Wonderful Parade.

On mine this is how it starts: "Ladies & Gentlemen, don't forget to take your place in line, leave your mind behind and join the procession of the people by the people and for the people, Your own wonderful parade"

Also on my 45, Richard is talking different, you can tell immediately for instance when he says, leave your mind behind.

Mine is also missing a lot of words. The 45 flows smoothly but is missing all this: "may I direct your attention to the center ring, where hollow princes & shallow kings perform there tricks while justice swings, side to side, and may I remind you once again, of the specutacle about the begin, now forming at the darkest end of the big top"

 

[coolvox]

I am qurious about how the parade
sounds in the mono version.
Does it still have the coming
and going effet?

Jim

 

[Harry]

Well THIS is a fascinating discovery, Chris. My copy of "Your Wonderful Parade' (1142) has all of the same numbering EXCEPT in the runoff groove, yours has the Δ78673-X. Mine has no X. Aside from a few minor mono differences, the one on my single is identical to all of the versions on the LP and CD over the years. Yours seems to be shorter, and from a different mix entirely - and it's not the same as the demo version on FROM THE TOP/ESSENTIAL.

This means that, for whatever reasons, there are two different pressings of the 1142 single. Does yours have the circle MR symbol in the runout goove? Mine does, indicating a Monarch pressing. Perhaps yours was one of those East Coast/West Coast deals we've heard about.

Harry
...THIS is why I hang around here, online...

 

[W.B.]

Well THIS is a fascinating discovery, Chris. My copy of "Your Wonderful Parade' (1142) has all of the same numbering EXCEPT in the runoff groove, yours has the Δ78673-X. Mine has no X. Aside from a few minor mono differences, the one on my single is identical to all of the versions on the LP and CD over the years. Yours seems to be shorter, and from a different mix entirely - and it's not the same as the demo version on FROM THE TOP/ESSENTIAL.

This means that, for whatever reasons, there are two different pressings of the 1142 single. Does yours have the circle MR symbol in the runout goove? Mine does, indicating a Monarch pressing. Perhaps yours was one of those East Coast/West Coast deals we've heard about.

Apparently, the "-X" on the " . . . Parade" side was probably a later pressing, after "Ticket . . . " made its run on the charts.

Which reminds me: Anyone -- anyone -- out there have any pressings from any of the Columbia factories (predominantly Pitman, NJ and Terre Haute, IN; to a much lesser extent Santa Maria, CA) of this debut Carpenters single? I have to date not seen any; all I've seen were the Monarchs. And if so, how does " . . . Parade" sound as vs. the Monarch pressings - mix or otherwise?

 

[Harry]

Apparently, the "-X" on the " . . . Parade" side was probably a later pressing, after "Ticket . . . " made its run on the charts.

Perhaps there might have been a thought to switching which record was the A-side, and thus the song was pared down by eliminating some of the spoken opening.

It's a curious recording for sure, with some subtle changes throughout.

Harry
NP: radio at work