Steven J. Gross
Well-Known Member
...how do you think it would do? Considering the great interest in the disc-
could it hit high on the charts? #1?
could it hit high on the charts? #1?
If "Whipped Cream" is released again....
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jimac51
New Member
If the "interest" is the overvalue this disc gets on Ebay-always keep in mind that here are a select few bidders with a seemingly unlimited amount of cash to win an item-sometimes its their ego and not their brain that is doing the bidding. Gaging these results as the norm would give a false reading of its demand. WHIPPED CREAM was one of the longest available "in print" CDs in the TJB canon and may have actually sold better than GREATEST HITS in the CD era as it definitely did during vinyl era. I suspect if this one came out tomorrow,the impact would be minimal since it had been available for such a long time,as opposed to harder to find(and some never available) titles. It wouldn't chart at all(and I believe Billboard has rules about its appearance on any chart,no matter how many copies it would actually sell) and would immediately return to the "deep catalog" status it had for years. Mac
Captain Bacardi
Well-Known Member
It won't happen. There's not that much interest in it, despite the ridiculous prices that some people shell out on eBay. The only possible way it could generate big sales is if there were bonus tracks or outtakes of some kind - and then maybe. It had been widely available for a long time for around $10 until a year or two ago, and it didn't do much then. The reality is that there isn't that much interest in the TJB to generate the kind of sales needed to top the charts.
Capt. Bacardi
Capt. Bacardi
I remember a CD copy of WHIPPED CREAM that sat in the bin at our local Tower Records for well over a year. There were originally two copies; I bought one of them, which left the other to sit. They eventually moved everything around and the copy disappeared. It was either purchased or sent back, I don't know.
Jon
Jon
Steven J. Gross
Well-Known Member
It would have to be promoted uniquely and hope for a miracle breakout single.
Has any older LP ever re-entered the charts 20 or 30 years later? (Beatles, Presley?)
Has any older LP ever re-entered the charts 20 or 30 years later? (Beatles, Presley?)
Captaindave
Well-Known Member
Given the kind of trash that often sells big today, I doubt that music such as TJB music, or anything else of that nature, would get very far. Certainly not like it did when it was originally released.
Public taste has been conditioned to the "bottom of the barrel" so to speak, so I would imagine that any good music wouldn't get much of a second look.
Public taste has been conditioned to the "bottom of the barrel" so to speak, so I would imagine that any good music wouldn't get much of a second look.
Jay Maynes/Juan Oskar
Member
How could there be a 2004 TJB hit? First of all, in the 1960's you could still have an instrumental hit, in fact they were quite common. If there were to be a new or old HA & TJB song used in a new hit movie or TV show (as a main theme) there could be another TJB song in our current music culture. Maybe if some TJB songs were used in the next "Austin Powers" movie there would be a rebirth of the TJB. Herb would have a hit album with old and new music. Later..........Jay
Mike
Active Member
Speaking strictly from a self-centered perspective, since I already have “Whipped Cream” on CD, lets skip “WC” and get “Fandango” reissued. I personally think it would have a better chance on the charts, although probably not much better. And, what charts would we be looking at? Smooth Jazz? Latin? Pop? Oldies & Goodies?
Of course this reissue talk is probably just a wistful dream.
Of course this reissue talk is probably just a wistful dream.
Captaindave
Well-Known Member
Herb Alpert and the TJB were heard on the Top 40 AM radio stations back in the sixties. Along with them were most of the pop and rock hits of the times. You could hear the Beatles, Rolling Stones, Beach Boys, Herman's Hermits, and TJB all within a 10 - 15 minute period on the same station. The TJB got lots of airplay right in there with the most popular music of the times. Everyone heard them. And, like the post above says, in the sixties, it was still possible to hear instrumental music on Top 40 radio, and have instrumental hits.
To the best of my knowledge, that sort of thing doesn't exist anymore.
And, who buys most of the albums/CDs? If memory is correct, it used to be youth. What does that age group listen to today? I'll confess that I don't know for sure, but if its the audience that listens to things like Madonna, rap, Britney Spears, etc, etc, etc, , you're not going to hear any TJB there.
Times have changed, radio has changed, the music industry has changed, and I think these changes pretty much eliminate TJB music being popular again like it was in the sixties.
To the best of my knowledge, that sort of thing doesn't exist anymore.
And, who buys most of the albums/CDs? If memory is correct, it used to be youth. What does that age group listen to today? I'll confess that I don't know for sure, but if its the audience that listens to things like Madonna, rap, Britney Spears, etc, etc, etc, , you're not going to hear any TJB there.
Times have changed, radio has changed, the music industry has changed, and I think these changes pretty much eliminate TJB music being popular again like it was in the sixties.
There's no way the TJB could make the charts now even if they sold a billion copies. That's because any reissue is relegated forever to the "Catalog" chart, which to me is stupid. If a record is selling well, it ought to be on the chart, period.
On the other hand, a TJB release wouldn't have to sell all that many copies to be considered a success. The bottom albums on the charts these days might sell as few as 2,000 copies in a week. If Herb could come out and sell 10,000 copies, it might make a pretty good showing on the catalog chart.
On the other hand, a TJB release wouldn't have to sell all that many copies to be considered a success. The bottom albums on the charts these days might sell as few as 2,000 copies in a week. If Herb could come out and sell 10,000 copies, it might make a pretty good showing on the catalog chart.
Jay Maynes/Juan Oskar said:
The same thing occured to me as I read your post. I mean, look at Austin Powers and the effect it had on "Mas Que Nada". Next thing you knew, there were disco mixes of the original selling like hotcakes...different versions and all.
If something from the TJB was used in a similar context, it could 'hit' just like Sergio Mendes & Brasil '66. After all, as they say, all that's old is new again.
Jon
Excellent article. Too bad there was no mention of the TJB in it. I wonder if that tells us something. 
Mike Blakesley said:
Another issue is marketing: most reissues are not marketed heavily. Some acts do get some reissue marketing, but not many. And usually it is an entire series (such as the previously mentioned ABKCO Stones SACD remasters).
I'd be interested to know how well "Definitive Hits" is selling. Most casual buyers would rather get a greatest hits package than individual albums (even through exposure on a movie soundtrack)...although albums as iconic as "Whipped Cream" was, stand a much better chance.
jimac51
New Member
The Randy Lewis article mentioned above is nice,especially for the novice who may not know just what Rhino does(or did,since Foos & Co. are long gone and WSM-Warner Special Marketing-is the real power behind Rhino today) but I can't help but think that with a few bits of info,this article could have been written at least five years ago-maybe ten. The Cameo/Parkway logjam is supposed to end this summer and,yes,no mention of the TJB misses an important point,as does no mention to Neil Young slowly entering the 1990s at last. Rather than spend so much time talking about what IS available,what ISN'T is always the most interesting. Of all the majors,BMG lagged so far behind with deluxe vault reissues that they are playing catchup to virtually no avail,save for their Manilow project and the revival interest for a few minutes in Elvis. Here is an interesting blip in BMG screen that will go by almost undetected-they are bringing out a Jennifer Warnes collection in their "Platinum & Gold" series(their version of Universal's "Millenium" packages,including lots of boring gray artwork)while their is nothing else available. This is a singer of hit "soundtrack" material"Dirty Dancing" &" An Officer & A Gentleman",including Academy Award winning material("It Goes Like It Goes",from "Norma Rae"),did some pop material that was country-tinged a la Linda Ronstadt and did one of the finest tributes to a singer/songwriter with the Leonard Cohen written album FAMOUS BLUE RAINCOAT and all she gets is a cheapo midline hodge podge because no one at BMG knows the importance of her catalog. There is lots of room for improvement in the reissue field and my hope is that Foos strikes paydirt with something(maybe the SCTV DVDs coming soon) to continue the glory days of Rhino with Shout Factory. Mac
...hundreds of eBay sellers will instantly have to find something else to make a fortune off of...
It wouldn't burn up any charts, that's for sure. As much as we look up to it, let's face it - with every passing day, more and more of the masses will be forgetting it.
As mentioned earlier, the only likely way to sell a ton of TjB product these days would be if someone were to use the old recordings in some kind of huge pop-culture movie or TV series. The soundtrack would then spur interest again in something created forty years ago.
I suppose a huge and clever marketing campaign via many media could also do it, but that doesn't seem very likely, now does it?
Harry
...being practical, online...
Speaking of soundtracks, I think Matchstick Men would have been an ideal project to have such effect on Herb's catalog if it had been more successful. But the main thing I want to address here is that in Japan, the Soundtrack CD does indeed feature both "Lonely Bull" and "Tijuana Taxi" -- were they included onthe US release of the ST CD?
Perhaps Herb gave permission for those songs to be used simply to "guage the feel" of possibly re-releasing them as we all hope he will. Only time will tell...
--Mr Bill
checking in from Metro Manila
Perhaps Herb gave permission for those songs to be used simply to "guage the feel" of possibly re-releasing them as we all hope he will. Only time will tell...
--Mr Bill
checking in from Metro Manila
Mr Bill said:
Yes, they're on the US-released soundtrack on Varese Sarabande. Both seem to have been lifted from the GREATEST HITS masters. "The Lonely Bull" has the ultra-wide stereo with total separation of the left/right tracks, and "Tijuana Taxi" is not suffering from dropouts like on DEF HITS.
Both are "Courtesy of Almo Properties, LLC"
Harry
NP: Corrs, BORROWED HEAVEN
Songs are often leased to compilation and soundtrack CDs to make money--better to use the music to increase the flow of royalty dollars than let it sit in a vault. Unlike a reissue, Herb wouldn't have to put out "reissue" dollars to get it release--he just leases permission to use the song to whatever label would request it.
I wonder why, though, the Rhino folks had such a hard time licensing the Carpenters and Alpert tracks for the Bacharach Box?
I wonder why, though, the Rhino folks had such a hard time licensing the Carpenters and Alpert tracks for the Bacharach Box?
jimac51
New Member
Neil-Remember that by the time the Bacharach box came to market,Rhino was firmly entrenched as a Warner label and many of the most important tracks are from Universal labels. Take away Scepter(which I believe WSM/Rhino controls) and A&M and you don't got much here,do you? One wonders if Universal,through Hip-O, was possibly planning an item like this on their side,but since they have always been a day late and a dollar short,may have had to concede victory to Rhino(this is pure speculation but,seeing how these two companies operate on other projects,one based in reality). Also,as we understand,Herb and Richard have individual legal rights to their recordings and I suspect these are much more expensive tracks to license than many others. Mac
jfiedler17
Well-Known Member
Mike Blakesley said:
Agree wholeheartedly!!!! I've always found that a stupid rule.
But then, I still don't agree with Billboard's choice to allow non-commercially-released-singles to qualify for the Hot 100 chart (did you realize it's possible to top the singles sales chart these days and STILL not crack the Hot 100? What kind of stupid system IS that?). So, I don't have a CLUE why Billboard runs things the way they do anymore ...
Since nowadays record buyers expect their Cds to last anything between an hour and 80 minutes, "Whipped Cream" is way too short to be successful bigtime as a CD. But if someone were to combine "Whipped Cream" and "Going Places" in a CD, and give it a new name and artwork, it might feel enough like a new album to make it to the compilations chart.
Just a suggestion in case anyone who holds the masters might be reading.....
Just a suggestion in case anyone who holds the masters might be reading.....
Dave
Well-Known Member
WHIPPED CREAM...Worth A Shot!!
Well, surely an LP with that "trademark cover" which has been parodied by so many artists over the years WOULD be put out again on CD! :|
Especially given the story behind it.
There are MANY who have had the original vinyl, who I think are still around to buy it; and may have replaced a lot of their LP's by now.
Dave
...in need of "replacement parts" for at least some of my vinyl--better visit HIP-O again...! :goofygrin:
Well, surely an LP with that "trademark cover" which has been parodied by so many artists over the years WOULD be put out again on CD! :|
Especially given the story behind it.
There are MANY who have had the original vinyl, who I think are still around to buy it; and may have replaced a lot of their LP's by now.
Dave
...in need of "replacement parts" for at least some of my vinyl--better visit HIP-O again...! :goofygrin:
Crazie Currie said:
I don't agree here. One of the things that annoys me about reissue CDs is all the extra material they tack on. It's fine to listen to once for "novelty" value, but it destroys the CD for casual listening. You put the disk on, listen to the album, and then you've got to go turn it off unless you want to hear a bunch of extra stuff (often "alternate versions" of the same songs you've just heard) that was originally left on the cutting-room floor.
I believe a classic album should be left as-is, and if there's extra material, the CD could include a web-link to a site from which that stuff could be downloaded by interested parties.
To me, one of the best things about a CD is that there is no "low limit" on how long a program can be. I have a "best of Paul Williams" CD I made that's just over 35 minutes long...because that's all the Paul Williams stuff I have that I really, really like.
I realize that "bonus material" is the big selling point on many reissues. But, I can think of only one or two instances in which I've really been impressed by the bonus material. Most of the time, it gets heard once and then never again.
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