What if "(They Long to Be) Close to You" Doesn't Hit?

[rockdoctor]

The Hot 100 was not everything at A&M, or any other label, in those days. Lee and Rita got FM album play, sold in smaller numbers but profitably, since they had smaller production budgets. They were more in tune with the early 70s vibe (don't forget, you go out the A&M gate, turn right, make the next left and you're headed straight for the clubs on the Sunset Strip), and more of the promotion staff saw a future for them than for Karen and Richard until the money began to roll in.

Even then, though, there were people at A&M (and I know this from experience) who by mid-decade, despite the money, were wondering when K&R (and Captain and Tennille)'s run would be over so they could focus on artists like Frampton and Styx.

Honestly, I never heard Rita or Lee on FM in this area. I first heard Lee from his single and Rita when I was at a friend's house(heard the debut album).
Too bad A&M let Captain and Tennille get away before the Make Your Move lp on Casablanca. That would have been a good shot in the arm for A&M although the follow up album on Casablanca failed so that would probably have been the end for them.

 

[Michael Hagerty]

Honestly, I never heard Rita or Lee on FM in this area.

What area is that?

I grew up with L.A. radio, which is what the folks working at A&M were listening to, and the people they were hanging out with. And there was a lot of album rock radio in L.A.----KPPC beginning in 1967, KMET starting in 1968, KABC-FM launching in 1969 (it became KLOS in 1971), and a mellow-album thing on KNX-FM beginning in 1973.

By 1972, album stations were breaking the hits, which would then cross over to Top 40. That made those stations very valuable, because you'd get two, three or maybe four-format hits (album, Top 40, Adult Contemporary and sometimes R&B) crossing over from initial album radio play. And the label is moving $5.98 albums instead of 99-cent singles.

But it didn't work in reverse. A record that started at Top 40 or AC was not going to cross over to album radio.

 

[rockdoctor]

What area is that?

I grew up with L.A. radio, which is what the folks working at A&M were listening to, and the people they were hanging out with. And there was a lot of album rock radio in L.A.----KPPC beginning in 1967, KMET starting in 1968, KABC-FM launching in 1969 (it became KLOS in 1971), and a mellow-album thing on KNX-FM beginning in 1973.

By 1972, album stations were breaking the hits, which would then cross over to Top 40. That made those stations very valuable, because you'd get two, three or maybe four-format hits (album, Top 40, Adult Contemporary and sometimes R&B) crossing over from initial album radio play. And the label is moving $5.98 albums instead of 99-cent singles.

But it didn't work in reverse. A record that started at Top 40 or AC was not going to cross over to album radio.

I am in Eastern Virginia. I had a couple of FM stations that I would listen to. I was still hearing Brasil'66 on FM into about 1973 when they changed to format more to harder rock and roll.. Now and then a station would start up with older music but then they would change later on as well.

 

[Michael Hagerty]

I am in Eastern Virginia. I had a couple of FM stations that I would listen to. I was still hearing Brasil'66 on FM into about 1973 when they changed to format more to harder rock and roll.. Now and then a station would start up with older music but then they would change later on as well.

Yeah. Very different.

In major cities, until about 1977, FM rock stations weren't exclusively hard rock. So artists like Rita would get play. In fact, songs like Michael Murphey's "Wildfire", Phoebe Snow's "Poetry Man" and pretty much all of Carly Simon's early 70s stuff broke on album radio and then crossed over to Top 40.

 

[Matthew S]

My understanding is that A&M didn’t commit to a second album right after Offering, just a single, CTY, which thankfully was a smash hit. Had that single not done well there wouldn’t have been any of these other tracks yet to release, all the others from the album that resulted from the success of the single. I don’t think there was a “Help” or “Kept on Loving You” yet to release next had the CTY single failed. Maybe WOJB but I’m guessing they wanted to see a hit first, then proceed with more, before they spent any more money.

 

[STEVE@ENGLAND]

My understanding is that A&M didn’t commit to a second album right after Offering, just a single, CTY, which thankfully was a smash hit. Had that single not done well there wouldn’t have been any of these other tracks yet to release, all the others from the album that resulted from the success of the single. I don’t think there was a “Help” or “Kept on Loving You” yet to release next had the CTY single failed. Maybe WOJB but I’m guessing they wanted to see a hit first, then proceed with more, before they spent any more money.

On that basis, we should all consider ourselves extremely lucky that Close to You was such a
big hit - although I like to believe (naively?) that A & M would have persevered with Karen/
Richard a little longer.
Maybe (if Close to You had flopped), Richard could have pointed a (sanctimonious) finger at
Herb and said (something along the lines of): "It's not our fault, you know, Herbie. You
suggested we record and release the damn song. I think you should give us another
chance." (Stooping low? Of course").

 

[Michael Hagerty]

On that basis, we should all consider ourselves extremely lucky that Close to You was such a
big hit - although I like to believe (naively?) that A & M would have persevered with Karen/
Richard a little longer.
Maybe (if Close to You had flopped), Richard could have pointed a (sanctimonious) finger at
Herb and said (something along the lines of): "It's not our fault, you know, Herbie. You
suggested we record and release the damn song. I think you should give us another
chance." (Stooping low? Of course").

Two fundamental flaws in that scenario:

One, without a hit to his name, Richard is unlikely to be so bold or to have that boldness tolerated.

Two, it was A&M Records, not A Records. Jerry wielded the ax(e).

 

[STEVE@ENGLAND]

Two fundamental flaws in that scenario:

One, without a hit to his name, Richard is unlikely to be so bold or to have that boldness tolerated.

Two, it was A&M Records, not A Records. Jerry wielded the ax(e).

You're right, Michael ... I was only joking (I wasn't seriously suggesting that Richard
could have been so crass.)

 

[STEVE@ENGLAND]

My understanding is that A&M didn’t commit to a second album right after Offering, just a single, CTY, which thankfully was a smash hit. Had that single not done well there wouldn’t have been any of these other tracks yet to release, all the others from the album that resulted from the success of the single. I don’t think there was a “Help” or “Kept on Loving You” yet to release next had the CTY single failed. Maybe WOJB but I’m guessing they wanted to see a hit first, then proceed with more, before they spent any more money.

I've given this matter some thought - and reached the conclusion that:

Would it have been such a bad thing if the Close to You single had flopped?

I realise I may just have uttered the foulest blasphemy - but, please, bear with me ...

Imagine the following ... The Close to You single flops worldwide ... Despite this,
A & M release (the) Carpenters' 2nd album (including both Close to You & We've
Only Just Begun) ... The latter's released as a single (Reaches # 2 in the U.S;
# 28 here in the U.K) ... A & M are satisfied with both the success of the latter
(and the album) & decide to 'stick' with Karen/Richard ... Karen/Richard
commence recording 'The Tan Album''; etc ...

Again:

Would it have been such a bad thing if the Close to You single had flopped?

If it had flopped, the album wouldn't (I assume) have had the same title nor
that atrocious cover - with Karen & Richard, well, sitting close to each other
(I understand this cover, in particular, upset Richard.)

And ...

If We've Only Just Begun is a big hit and A & M are happy ...

then what's the problem (with the Close to You single being a flop)?

If it had been a flop, then instead of being lumbered with a 'cutesy pie, goody four
shoes' image ('that Micky Mouse couldn't maintain'), Karen/Richard would then
have had no such image problems to contend with ... assuming that they don't
then record Sing, Jambalaya (On the Bayou), Please Mr. Postman, Goofus,
Can't Smile Without You and Beechwood 4-5789, of course

A bit of personal history ... I've been a rock fan for decades (I'm keen on
progressive rock: Genesis, Yes, Gentle Giant, etc.) And, as most of you
probably know, the album covers (by such bands) were, generally
speaking, far more imaginative than (the) Carpenters' album covers
... by a long shot.

Imagine yourself viewing covers such as:

Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon;
Led Zeppelin's Physical Graffiti;
Queen's News of the World ...

... And, now imagine yourself viewing Close to You or A Song for You.

The A Song for You cover, alone, would have alienated a lot of the general record-
buying public (let alone rock fans.)

In short, the poor Carpenters' image wouldn't have even arisen had the Close to
You single flopped - and Karen/Richard wouldn't have felt the 'need' to adopt
such an image for most of their television specials (Space Encounters,
anyone? Grrrrrrhhhh )

Whether Karen/Richard liked it (or not), they were competing, in the album
charts with the likes of Queen and Pink Floyd - and to alienate a sizeable
part of the record-buying public (with, largely, atrocious album covers -
in order to maintain an image 'that Micky Mouse couldn't maintain')
seems short-sighted.

Maybe ...

Herb Alpert asking Karen/Richard to record Close to You was the worst thing
(image-wise) that could have happened to them; for, in the long run, if it had
flopped and We've Only Just Begun was a big hit, then, like I said, what's the
problem? (A & M are happy and Karen/Richard don't adopt a 'cutesy pie'
image.)

For what it's worth, I like the song 'Close to You' (It's not in my 'Top 20'
Carpenters' songs, though.)

OK ... Rant over (I think I'd better lie down in a darkened room ...

Nurse! Nurse!)

Your comments?

Steve.

 

[kprather]

I think you're reaching there. If CTY flops, the album is probably titled "We've Only Just Begun", and probably has the same exact cover. Nothing about the "Goody-Four-Shoes" image changes in this timeline.

 

[Michael Hagerty]

I've given this matter some thought - and reached the conclusion that:

Would it have been such a bad thing if the Close to You single had flopped?

I realise I may just have uttered the foulest blasphemy - but, please, bear with me ...

Imagine the following ... The Close to You single flops worldwide ... Despite this,
A & M release (the) Carpenters' 2nd album (including both Close to You & We've
Only Just Begun) ... The latter's released as a single (Reaches # 2 in the U.S;
# 28 here in the U.K) ... A & M are satisfied with both the success of the latter
(and the album) & decide to 'stick' with Karen/Richard ... Karen/Richard
commence recording 'The Tan Album''; etc ...

Again:

Would it have been such a bad thing if the Close to You single had flopped?

If it had flopped, the album wouldn't (I assume) have had the same title nor
that atrocious cover - with Karen & Richard, well, sitting close to each other
(I understand this cover, in particular, upset Richard.)

And ...

If We've Only Just Begun is a big hit and A & M are happy ...

then what's the problem (with the Close to You single being a flop)?

If it had been a flop, then instead of being lumbered with a 'cutesy pie, goody four
shoes' image ('that Micky Mouse couldn't maintain'), Karen/Richard would then
have had no such image problems to contend with ... assuming that they don't
then record Sing, Jambalaya (On the Bayou), Please Mr. Postman, Goofus,
Can't Smile Without You and Beechwood 4-5789, of course

A bit of personal history ... I've been a rock fan for decades (I'm keen on
progressive rock: Genesis, Yes, Gentle Giant, etc.) And, as most of you
probably know, the album covers (by such bands) were, generally
speaking, far more imaginative than (the) Carpenters' album covers
... by a long shot.

Imagine yourself viewing covers such as:

Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon;
Led Zeppelin's Physical Graffiti;
Queen's News of the World ...

... And, now imagine yourself viewing Close to You or A Song for You.

The A Song for You cover, alone, would have alienated a lot of the general record-
buying public (let alone rock fans.)

In short, the poor Carpenters' image wouldn't have even arisen had the Close to
You single flopped - and Karen/Richard wouldn't have felt the 'need' to adopt
such an image for most of their television specials (Space Encounters,
anyone? Grrrrrrhhhh )

Whether Karen/Richard liked it (or not), they were competing, in the album
charts with the likes of Queen and Pink Floyd - and to alienate a sizeable
part of the record-buying public (with, largely, atrocious album covers -
in order to maintain an image 'that Micky Mouse couldn't maintain')
seems short-sighted.

Maybe ...

Herb Alpert asking Karen/Richard to record Close to You was the worst thing
(image-wise) that could have happened to them; for, in the long run, if it had
flopped and We've Only Just Begun was a big hit, then, like I said, what's the
problem? (A & M are happy and Karen/Richard don't adopt a 'cutesy pie'
image.)

For what it's worth, I like the song 'Close to You' (It's not in my 'Top 20'
Carpenters' songs, though.)

OK ... Rant over (I think I'd better lie down in a darkened room ...

Nurse! Nurse!)

Your comments?

Steve.

Flaws in the logic:

Depending on how badly "Close To You" stiffs in this scenario, Carpenters are now two-time losers in terms of singles releases---they stiffed with material from the Beatles and Burt Bacharach.

There's almost zero chance they're offered a second album, and it's long odds that there's another single---which means Richard doesn't get to release "We've Only Just Begun".

If----BIG if---they do get to do that, and it hits (and again, on West Coast airplay alone, they have a leg up thanks to the song being featured in a Crocker Bank ad for months before), and they get to do an album, it's an album with one hit single instead of two (likely inhibiting sales), and even if it's called "We've Only Just Begun" instead of "Close To You", I'm not at all sure the cover photo changes or was ever conceived as being driven by the title.

I know you're in the UK, but here in the US, this was the sleeve for the 45 release of "We've Only Just Begun":



That's likely your album cover no matter what.

And no question you're right about the album covers being big mistakes (as Richard himself has bitterly complained)---but your timeline for comparison is a bit off...Dark Side of the Moon was three years into the future, Physical Graffiti five years and News of the World seven.

Here are the covers for the top 5 U.S. albums of 1970:



I suppose this could also have been "Close To You".



I mean, cool and all, but what along these lines could you have done that wouldn't have been completely out of phase with the music inside?

(end of part one)

 

[Mike Blakesley]

If it had flopped, the album wouldn't (I assume) have had the same title nor
that atrocious cover - with Karen & Richard, well, sitting close to each other

You're assuming that the title of "Close To You" was completely responsible for the cover of the CTY album. That's a stretch.

It's true that the album title might have been different if CTY hadn't been a hit, but other than that, you're really reaching.

It's well-known that A&M's promo department just didn't know how to promote the Carpenters. A brother-sister act was not a common thing. So all they could think of was, pose them in some nice scenery. The next album, they probably said "I dunno... the logo is cool, just stick the logo on the front and self-title it."

They did mostly love songs with harps and strings, at least 90% of their output was some form of love songs, so love-song-type imagery was probably going to happen no matter what. It's literally all they could come up with.

In short, the image thing might have happened no matter what song was their first hit.

I still maintain that even if CTY had flopped, they'd have been given another shot by A&M. The A&M archives are littered with lots of acts that recorded five or six or seven albums and NEVER had a big hit. And this was an act that had been hand-picked by Herb Alpert himself.

Of course it's also true that A&M was going through a lean period at this moment -- Carpenters gave them their first #1 single in three years, after all. So it's possible they were looking to cut a few budget corners around the roster.

 

[Michael Hagerty]

(part two)



Very nice. The tan album kinda went there---and Carpenters didn't have a stylized logo first time out.



Iconic and impossible to emulate.



And again, like Led Zeppelin, what could you do, inspired by this, that would match the music inside?

 

[Jack A.]

Depending on how badly "Close To You" stiffs in this scenario, Carpenters are now two-time losers on a single release---they stiffed with material from the Beatles and Burt Bacharach.

There's almost zero chance they're offered a second album, and it's long odds that there's another single---which means Richard doesn't get to release "We've Only Just Begun".

Michael brings up a good point. The outcome of this scenario would partly depend on exactly how much of a flop CTY is. Let's say A&M doesn't have high hopes for the single to begin with, so they only press 10,000 copies. Herb and Jerry would obviously still be discouraged from releasing another single, but maybe could be persuaded if the right people insisted that WOJB would be a big hit. Then let's say WOJB is released and still becomes a hit. K&R would likely still be kept around for another album. But if Herb and Jerry were sure, right out of the gate, that CTY would be a huge smash, and print, say, a million copies, that would obviously be a much bigger loss financially, and A&M may have just dropped the C's right then and there without considering another release.

Because, regardless of the true talent an artist possesses - like Herb realized - it really does come down to money in the end.

 

[Michael Hagerty]

Also worth mentioning---a hit single does NOT guarantee an album---especially if an artist's previous album has flopped. If I'm Jerry Moss and "Close To You" has stiffed, IF I'm keeping the Carpenters, I might want two or three hit singles before risking a second LP.

 

[STEVE@ENGLAND]

Flaws in the logic:

Depending on how badly "Close To You" stiffs in this scenario, Carpenters are now two-time losers on a single release---they stiffed with material from the Beatles and Burt Bacharach.

There's almost zero chance they're offered a second album, and it's long odds that there's another single---which means Richard doesn't get to release "We've Only Just Begun".

If----BIG if---they do get to do that, and it hits (and again, on West Coast airplay alone, they have a leg up thanks to the song being featured in a Crocker Bank ad for months before), and they get to do an album, it's an album with one hit single instead of two (likely inhibiting sales), and even if it's called "We've Only Just Begun" instead of "Close To You", I'm not at all sure the cover photo changes or was ever conceived as being driven by the title.

I know you're in the UK, but here in the US, this was the sleeve for the 45 release of "We've Only Just Begun":



That's likely your album cover no matter what.

And no question you're right about the album covers being big mistakes (as Richard himself has bitterly complained)---but your timeline for comparison is a bit off...Dark Side of the Moon was three years into the future, Physical Graffiti five years and News of the World seven.

Here are the covers for the top 5 U.S. albums of 1970:



I suppose this could also have been "Close To You".



I mean, cool and all, but what along these lines could you have done that wouldn't have been completely out of phase with the music inside?

(end of part one)

You're right, Michael ... I'd better get back to the 'drawing board'.

I chose bad examples of album covers - given that none of the three I listed hadn't
even been released at the time (Mea Culpa) - but, I think, you get my gist.

I'd have to give an alternative cover (for the Close to You album) some thought -
now that you've mentioned it ... though I can't, for the life of me, see it resembling
Led Zep II.



Funnily enough, I've never rated Led Zep II.

 

[STEVE@ENGLAND]

You're assuming that the title of "Close To You" was completely responsible for the cover of the CTY album. That's a stretch.

It's true that the album title might have been different if CTY hadn't been a hit, but other than that, you're really reaching.

It's well-known that A&M's promo department just didn't know how to promote the Carpenters. A brother-sister act was not a common thing. So all they could think of was, pose them in some nice scenery. The next album, they probably said "I dunno... the logo is cool, just stick the logo on the front and self-title it."

They did mostly love songs with harps and strings, at least 90% of their output was some form of love songs, so love-song-type imagery was probably going to happen no matter what. It's literally all they could come up with.

In short, the image thing might have happened no matter what song was their first hit.

I still maintain that even if CTY had flopped, they'd have been given another shot by A&M. The A&M archives are littered with lots of acts that recorded five or six or seven albums and NEVER had a big hit. And this was an act that had been hand-picked by Herb Alpert himself.

Of course it's also true that A&M was going through a lean period at this moment -- Carpenters gave them their first #1 single in three years, after all. So it's possible they were looking to cut a few budget corners around the roster.

I was probably over-stretching my point a little, Mike, ... but most people (on this forum)
would, no doubt, be of the opinion that (the) Carpenters' "marketing" - throughout their
career - was pretty poor.

I'm surprised by A & M acts being given 5, 6, 7 chances to come up with a successful album,
though (I can't see record companies, to-day, being quite so liberal.)
Remarkable how times change!

I like to think Karen/Richard would have been given, at least, one more chance (if the Close
to You album flopped) ... But who knows?
It doesn't bear thinking about, really, does it?

 

[Matthew S]

Too much guesswork on all of these "what-if" scenarios. The fact is things developed the way they did.

I’ve now arrived at this same conclusion.

 

[STEVE@ENGLAND]

I think you're reaching there. If CTY flops, the album is probably titled "We've Only Just Begun", and probably has the same exact cover. Nothing about the "Goody-Four-Shoes" image changes in this timeline.

Good point ... I merely assumed that the album would have had a different cover.

 

[Michael Hagerty]

You're right, Michael ... I'd better get back to the 'drawing board'.

I chose bad examples of album covers - given that none of the three I listed hadn't
even been released at the time (Mea Culpa) - but, I think, you get my gist.

I'd have to give an alternative cover (for the Close to You album) some thought -
now that you've mentioned it ... though I can't, for the life of me, see it resembling
Led Zep II.



Funnily enough, I've never rated Led Zep II.

And beyond what the other popular albums of 1970 had for covers, we really need to look at A&M's work at the time. It was an in-house art department, which is very different from Mick Jagger sending Andy Warhol a telegram saying "make what you like and bill us for what it costs" and getting the jacket for Sticky Fingers.

A&M's rock output at that time was largely licensed from Island (UK), so let's look at their domestic pop product from '70, leading up to Close To You:







Common theme---stick 'em outside and take their picture. If the Evie Sands album had hit, K&R might have been on a tandem bike---which might have been worse.

 

[Michael Hagerty]

I'm surprised by A & M acts being given 5, 6, 7 chances to come up with a successful album,
though.

As I said in another thread here----if your album stiffs on the charts, but takes in more money than it cost to make, you're safe.

What is a successful album?

Here's a question I have that is relevant to the Carpenters albums, but could also be generalized towards any other artist or musical group. How many copies of an album does an album have to generate within a year of its release to be considered a successful album? 500 thousand copies? 1...

forum.amcorner.com

Carpenters made expensive albums.

 

[STEVE@ENGLAND]

I’ve now arrived at this same conclusion.

I think I was relying on just a few too many What-If's, wouldn't you say, Matthew?

I assumed (and this was a BIG assumption to make) that A & M would have been
relatively OK about the Close to You single flopping.

 

[STEVE@ENGLAND]

And beyond what the other popular albums of 1970 had for covers, we really need to look at A&M's work at the time. It was an in-house art department, which is very different from Mick Jagger sending Andy Warhol a telegram saying "make what you like and bill us for what it costs" and getting the jacket for Sticky Fingers.

A&M's rock output at that time was largely licensed from Island (UK), so let's look at their domestic pop product from '70, leading up to Close To You:







Common theme---stick 'em outside and take their picture. If the Evie Sands album had hit, K&R might have been on a tandem bike---which might have been worse.

Perish the thought!!!

 

[Michael Hagerty]

I will say that I think the "Carpenters" logo is a good one, but was never properly executed---the old-style photo envelope worked against them and the "A Song For You" album cover was too valentiney. Probably the best it got was "Singles 1969-73".

Trouble is, the first album or two needed to have K&R's pictures on the cover---and I'm straining to think of a picture that I've ever seen of them together---cover or not---that doesn't either feed the too smiley or too close narrative.

Maybe "Horizon"....but again, that was six years after the first album. As Frank Drebin said in an episode of "Police Squad", "We would have come sooner, but your husband wasn't dead yet."

 

[byline]

Trouble is, the first album or two needed to have K&R's pictures on the cover---and I'm straining to think of a picture that I've ever seen of them together---cover or not---that doesn't either feed the too smiley or too close narrative.

I thought the Ticket to Ride album cover, and also the back cover photo, were perfect. They looked like brother and sister, in a beautiful setting. I can't figure out why A&M didn't see that and continue in that direction. Horizon, which you mentioned, was the other good one ... but too late. (BTW, love Police Squad!)

Something I couldn't figure out about the near-perfect A Song for You: Yes, as Richard complained, it looks like a Valentine's Day card. But I really do think it fits the mood of the album. I like the fact that the logo is a shadow. It projects some darkness onto an otherwise romantic cover. But why, oh why, did we get only that tiny picture of them on the album flap? It was one of the best pictures of them from that era, and it looks like a cameo, an afterthought of, "Oh, yeah, we're supposed to have a picture of them on here." It was one of the complaints I had about Passage ... which, as I recall, had no photos of them. Why not at least include one on the inner sleeve?