Karen Carpenter (The Drummer Who Sang)

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As for Karen not playing drums on the solo album, I believe her self esteem by 1979 was so shot to hell that even she believed she couldn't play the drums anymore. As she told Phil Ramone when she was at the drum set, "this isn't me anymore" and he replied, "it could be." From early on different drummers were brought in. I so wish Karen had the self esteem to say, No. She never believed she was an important part of Carpenters, as far as decisions went. She let Richard call the shots. As time goes on the situation never changes and things don't change. Had she stood up to Richard and insisted, I'll bet he would have listened. Since she didn't he probably figured it was status quo and to keep on being the boss. Not Richard's fault. He was a power leader and she followed even when she probably didn't want to. Doing what Richard wants for the sake of the act. Blech.
 
Quoted from 1971, TV Guide (Schmidt Reader, page 25):
"...the duos' manager Sherwin Bash informed Digby Diehl --in no uncertain terms-- that his 'real job'
was to get Karen out from behind the drums. It wasn't an easy assignment, but, within several months
she hesitantly drifted toward center stage and the Carpenters hired another drummer.
Although Karen became a confident front for the group, Diehl later recalled that Richard remained rigid
and uptight onstage--" I never got him out from behind the piano."
 
Tom Bahler:
"Another example is Karen Carpenter.
She and I were very close. Karen was a great drummer, but she wasn’t Hal Blaine.
When they recorded “Close To You” and the other early stuff, she told Richard that she didn’t want the pressure of playing drums
and singing, too, so she told him to get Hal Blaine to do it.
So Hal played on the early Carpenters stuff. Later, when she got more confidence she did play on some stuff, but basically hired Hal as a rule. "

Source:
http://www.cmongethappy.com/interviews/tb/tombahler3.html
 
Richard Carpenter:
"We started recording a second album, the first two tracks recorded being “Love Is Surrender” and “I’ll Never Fall In Love Again”.
This was before “Close To You” was brought to our attention."

This bit of information, coming as it does from the official Website, only serves to underscore my puzzlement.
Listening to the song--Love Is Surrender--Karen's drumming is impeccable,strong, even.
And, it recorded before Close To You--which, as we all know features Hal Blaine on Drums.

Then, again, Karen's position on The Carpenters Softball team (#29, September 1973) was Pitcher.
 
aaflyer98 said:
As for Karen not playing drums on the solo album, I believe her self esteem by 1979 was so shot to hell that even she believed she couldn't play the drums anymore. As she told Phil Ramone when she was at the drum set, "this isn't me anymore" and he replied, "it could be." From early on different drummers were brought in. I so wish Karen had the self esteem to say, No. She never believed she was an important part of Carpenters, as far as decisions went. She let Richard call the shots. As time goes on the situation never changes and things don't change. Had she stood up to Richard and insisted, I'll bet he would have listened. Since she didn't he probably figured it was status quo and to keep on being the boss. Not Richard's fault. He was a power leader and she followed even when she probably didn't want to. Doing what Richard wants for the sake of the act. Blech.
Click to expand...
Patrick, while I think perhaps this overall perception of their working relationship is correct, I don't think it is entirely correct. In Chris May's interview with John Bettis, John makes note of some epic fights between Karen and Richard. So I think Karen did fight for what she believed in. We tend to think of her as this passive being, but I believe the reality was far from that. Still, I do agree that her sense of self-esteem was poor, and for me, that's the reason why she allowed herself to be moved away from her beloved drums. If you have showbiz professionals telling you, "You're a star, and you deserve to be the star! You're the one people want to see. If you take that step, then there are no limits to what the Carpenters can do!" are you going to argue? This was the argument being put forth from a commercial music business standpoint, and Karen and Richard very much wanted to succeed in that business. I think Karen understood that this was a marketing decision, not an artistic one, and I think she believed she could sacrifice her drumming without doing any harm to her psyche. But that was denial, and I think there truly was harm done. But I also think that by the time she realized that, it was too late. The die was cast. As she told Phil Ramone, "Those days are over." I think by then, her obsession with her appearance, and the further remark she made about, "It doesn't help my rear end," are revealing. Karen was so fixated on that part of her body that she saw nothing else. Neither the physical harm she was doing to herself, nor the emotional harm she was perpetuating.
newvillefan said:
I think that's definitely true. He always looked awkward and stilted on stage when not at the piano.
Click to expand...
And yet I always think back to that video of their live concert in Australia. To me, Richard appeared quite animated. IMO, that's the best video of one of their live performances. They looked like they still loved it, and hadn't yet grown tired and reverted to a particular mold of performance that they seemed directed to take on.
 
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This tidbit eluded me, until now:
Richard Carpenter
And When He Smiles
" I heard it while driving from one engagement to the next in early 1971. We both thought it was catchy, and I put together this arrangement. Karen and I recorded a track for it, but since Karen was the drummer, there is no "work lead". This is a live recording, done on September 25, 1971 at the BBC television Studios., London, for our first UK special."
 
GaryAlan said:
This tidbit eluded me, until now:
Richard Carpenter
And When He Smiles
" I heard it while driving from one engagement to the next in early 1971. We both thought it was catchy, and I put together this arrangement. Karen and I recorded a track for it, but since Karen was the drummer, there is no "work lead". This is a live recording, done on September 25, 1971 at the BBC television Studios., London, for our first UK special."
Click to expand...
Would that be where this was recorded?
 
GaryAlan said:
Richard Carpenter:
"We started recording a second album, the first two tracks recorded being “Love Is Surrender” and “I’ll Never Fall In Love Again”.
This was before “Close To You” was brought to our attention."

This bit of information, coming as it does from the official Website, only serves to underscore my puzzlement.
Listening to the song--Love Is Surrender--Karen's drumming is impeccable,strong, even.
And, it recorded before Close To You--which, as we all know features Hal Blaine on Drums.

.
Click to expand...
Karen played on the Ticket to Ride album and did fine, plus this wasn't her first rodeo. Come on, Karen had an excellent ear, sense of rhythm, and musicality! She would have made playing adjustments for studio recording. I think the A&M "men" just thought they knew better because there were certain ways that things were done. Studio executives from music and film pulled these stunts all the time.
 
After reading and re-reading material relating to why ? Karen Carpenter was not utilized on the recordings
more often, I am still at a loss for a plausible explanation.In fact, those early albums--say, to Horizon---should have
displayed her drumming on every song, she was in top physical shape, she could lay into those drums.
The album Offering,
most of Now & Then,
the Songs:
Please Mr. Postman, This Masquerade, And When He Smiles, and a few others...these display her perfect timing.
(Richard : "a perfect metronome", "Boy, could she play 'em !"page 52 Coleman).
And, Karen was drumming before beginning to seriously sing. (as she points out).
But, as pointed out in Coleman:
"Karen seemed to be so intimidated by her brother's natural talent,
that for her to enter music was to invite comparison." (Coleman,p.51).
But, again in Coleman:
"Richard saw her (singing) potential and she'd do everything he said.
And, that's what Richard needed, someone to do
what he wanted them to do." (page 54).
 
GaryAlan said:
After reading and re-reading material relating to why ? Karen Carpenter was not utilized on the recordings
more often, I am still at a loss for a plausible explanation.In fact, those early albums--say, to Horizon---should have
displayed her drumming on every song, she was in top physical shape, she could lay into those drums.
The album Offering,
most of Now & Then,
the Songs:
Please Mr. Postman, This Masquerade, And When He Smiles, and a few others...these display her perfect timing.
(Richard : "a perfect metronome", "Boy, could she play 'em !"page 52 Coleman).
And, Karen was drumming before beginning to seriously sing. (as she points out).
But, as pointed out in Coleman:
"Karen seemed to be so intimidated by her brother's natural talent,
that for her to enter music was to invite comparison." (Coleman,p.51).
But, again in Coleman:
"Richard saw her (singing) potential and she'd do everything he said.
And, that's what Richard needed, someone to do
what he wanted them to do." (page 54).
Click to expand...
Damn, you are right. Control freaks don't understand the damage they inflict on others or that they may be wrong! I'm going to go listen to "Happy" and change my mood. You are an absolute scholar, Gary.
 
This is rather nice:
The Best Female Drummers,
Ranked #1 Karen Carpenter
List Criteria: Only female drummers
The best female drummers are those musically inclined ladies who saw a great deal of success manning the drums within a band or as a solo musician. You might not find them on the "Rolling Stone" list of 100 greatest drummers of all time but each has solidified their place as one of the best female drummers ever.
As if women didn't have a hard enough time being recognized among male band members in the music industry already, girl drummers face additional struggles. Chauvinistic critics will allege that women lack the physical strength, passion or even drive to be a successful drummer. Clearly these top female drummers prove that stigma wrong.
Karen Carpenter stands out as a favorite among many music lovers having played drums and sang for the 1970s duo The Carpenters. Janet Weiss played for several bands during her long career of rocking out. Maureen "Moe" Tucker might not be a household name but she was an integral part of the legendary rock band The Velvet Underground. Even Sheila E, who has worked with the likes of Prince and Ringo Starr plus released several successful solo albums, dominated the drums during her illustrious career. The list goes on and on.
Here:
http://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/best-female-drummers

#10 on
The Best Female Vocalists Ever
#18 on
The Best Female Rock Singers
#29 on
The Best Singers of All Time
#76 on
The Best Drummers of All Time
 
Book:
Women Drummers, by Angela Smith (Littlefield Publishers, April 2014)
Chapter 12: Awesome Times Two
Karen Carpenter
"...her legacy as a drummer who sang lives on. She would be pleased to know her name appears
on nearly every list of top women drummers, and that she is respected as much for her drumming
chops as her vocal abilities." (Page 121)
According to the late composer Allyn Ferguson, who worked with Karen on their television series,
Make Your Own Kind Of Music, Karen's poise and self confidence took a nose dive when she was absent her drums." (Page 120).
 
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