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There are several rock-oriented tracks on the album,whatever style or degree of rock they may be:"Still In Love","All Because","Still Crazy","Making Love".Karen's album was a musical and personal stab at independence. It worked extremely well. So what if it wasn't a '10'? It certainly deserved to be heard in 1980, and would have done great! There's only one song on the whole album that could be called 'rock'. It might not have worked 100%, but it showed Karen had serious kahunas for trying something DIFFERENT, and I'm so thankful we have it to enjoy forever. She is definitely looking down and enjoying its posthumous success! It meant the world to her, and it means the world to her true fans.
You hit the nail on the head. It absolutely was a dated commercial effort & well beneath someone of her talent.That material wasn't good enough for Karen.Well, count me in as one of those fans. I thought the material well beneath someone of her talent. I, as probably everyone at A&M at the time, was expecting something of great "depth," emotion, and timelessness that only she could deliver...and well, honestly, we got sex and disco. I completley understand, and to a point agree with, the "stab at independence" and "growing" as an artist arguement; howver, this seemed more a dated commercial effort (to maker her "relevant" in the late 70's) hardly worthy of one of the greatest voices in the lexicon of American music. Short sighted on Phil's part, in my humble minority opinion.
It's possible that one or two tracks might have gotten some airplay & chart action in 1980-but it wouldn't have mattered.Those hit singles would've disappeared from top-40 radio within a few months,the album would've been seriously dated by 1981-and it probably would've been out-of-print by 1985.So there you go....even if Karen had 1 or 2 hits off this album (which I feel she could of had) she was in no better or worse place than any other artist at that time...heck even Olivia only had 1 or 2 hits off some of her albums, not all of Olivia's albums had top ten hits....and this was Karen's first solo...they just didn't want to give it a chance...if this one didn't score her next one would have, could this have been the fear?
You're absolutely right mr J. It's been over thirty years since Karen recorded her solo album, and it still sounds pretty damn good!It's not important how current or trendy Karen's album might have sounded in 1980-what's important is how is that album(or any album) going to sound in twenty or thirty years?
You hit the nail on the head. It absolutely was a dated commercial effort & well beneath someone of her talent.That material wasn't good enough for Karen.
It's possible that one or two tracks might have gotten some airplay & chart action in 1980-but it wouldn't have mattered.Those hit singles would've disappeared from top-40 radio within a few months,the album would've been seriously dated by 1981-and it probably would've been out-of-print by 1985.
It's not important how current or trendy Karen's album might have sounded in 1980-what's important is how is that album(or any album) going to sound in twenty or thirty years?
Phil Ramone's production style was too brash for Karen-he was used to working with pop/rock acts like Paul Simon & Billy Joel.He probably encouraged Karen to record the type of material that he was producing for his other artists.The ironic thing is, she chose all the material herself personally.... It was said above that the material selection was short sighted of Phil but as I see it, his view was that this was Karen's album to make however she chose and his job as producer was to help her realise that goal in the best way he could. I also think you have to put this whole episode into the context of the time - Karen wanted something that would be hip and contemporary, not timeless (hence her saying she wanted to record material like Donna Summer was putting out around this time).
Richard's solo album is also dated as well-but the bigger problem is the material was too contemporary for Richard-just like much of the material on Karen's album was too contemporary for her.It would have mattered to Karen...maybe the only person it should have mattered...I would like to think she would have been ecstatic, joyful and over the moon...saying look look my songs charted and got airplay. Then on top of that she would have received huge responses from fans in letters or in person about how much they liked the album and with some marketing fans would have been around to tell her so. It only makes sense. It would have been what every artist dreams of....getting that "love" reaction from the fan base that their work is appreciated and loved.
So would you say the same for Richard's solo album, "Time"? "Say Yeah" how is that any worse than any of Karen's solo cuts?
For me...yes his album is dated sounding and has not held up well in 20 or 30 yrs.
I can honestly say that I can listen to Karen's album and it just makes me smile and has rhythm and beat that gets my head bobbing and toes tapping...this is not just emotional stuff cause I love the album it's real, felt that way when released and feel that way now. For me, that says something.
Sure, Karen's solo album has a few tracks that sound dated. That being said, let's get real here. 'Sing' and 'Top of the World' and many other Carpenters songs sound very '70's and very dated. That's what happens when 30-40 + years have passed. LOL>> It's not just Karen's solo songs.
Also, some of the trademark Carpenters 'oohs and aahs' haven't aged well, either. It's a fact, and it ain't fair to pick on Karen's solo tunes alone. But, to me, that's what makes her output so wonderful. A lot of it is timeless....including the solo stuff. And a lot of it is dated. The same can be applied to the Beatles, Beach Boys and many other legendary acts. Karen's charm cuts through it all, solo or not.
Some Carpenters material most definitely is dated-particularly many of the 70's hit singles.But,thankfully,that represents only a small portion of their recorded output.And,today,Karen is more famous for her Christmas,standard & jazz-oriented recordings-rather than most of her 70's hit singles.
Somebody mentioned on another post that they heard the "Karen/Ella" medley recently on a jazz station in Florida.When was the last time anybody heard "Postman", "Hush" or "Occupants" on the radio?
That's so true. I had to give my favorite singer as a password when I got my iPhone and I told the young Hispanic guy, about 25, Karen Carpenter. He said, "who is that?" I tries to explain with no suceess, he was clueless. I only here their music on Music of Your Life type stations and sometimes on our local little pirate station here KJ102.1 when they play 70's stuff. They play a large amount of the hits, but never There's A Kind Of Hush, like so many say.Carpenters don't get played on mainstream radio for one reason and one reason only - they don't test well. If they don't pass the test, they don't get played. It's no more complicated than that.
Put a bunch of people in an auditorium and have them listen to 15-second hooks of songs and you'll get a sizable number who think they can't stand Carpenters. They're looking for stuff to "hate" and Carpenters are still an easy target.
Now add to the fact that radio stations are testing younger and younger audiences all the time. So now you get a large percentage of people who might not mind what's being played by Carpenters, but they're also totally unfamiliar with it. And familiarity is another qualification in these tests. Why are they unfamiliar? It's a Catch-22 situation - because the radio they grew up with never played Carpenters!
Harry
I'm not sure which is worse; when young people say "who is that?" or when they say "Ya, my grandma listens to them." Ouch.He said, "who is that?" I tries to explain with no suceess, he was clueless.
You know what I think part of the problem is? It's that since about the mid-60s, too many people have believed that for music to be considered "great", it has to somehow contain an element of counter-culture.Richard and Karen treated like caricatures of musicians, instead of being glorified , by the record company(-ies?)....I have never, and will never, cower from professing my adoration of Carpenters to all whom I come into contact with, period.
On another artist forum, under their "Discussion of other artists" category of Carpenters, I mentioned that it was considered square and uncool to be a Carpenters fan back in the day because of their image. A fan from Europe thought it was ironic that the nation that gave us Donny and the Osmonds thought the Carpenters were square. Fans in other countries don't seem to get why they didn't get the respect they deserved in the U.S. I don't either.It is of some interest to note that outside of their home country (USA) Carpenters
are treated with reverence in places such as Japan, China, Philippines, to name but a few.
If one looks at the statistics, such adoration came from those other countries after their popularity
waned in America.
1970-1975 they were tops in America (Didn't they win the first American Music Award for 1974?)
1975 onward in UK
1975 and onward in Japan
Made in America and Passage were hits in UK.
So, in terms of geography,also, Carpenters are thought of,perceived, differently in other cultures.
Actually,Universal did a pretty good job of marketing K&R's catalog: they issued two definitive double-disc anthologies,the Essential Collection boxed set,and "As Time Goes By"-as well as a few single disc compilations.I would even contend that the manner in which Universal Music Group has (mis)handled marketing of the back-catalogue
throughout their tenure of ownership has skewered the entire enterprise for Carpenters music.
To have ever let a monster seller like Singles 69-73 go out of print is ridiculous. That album is by far the most well known
amongst the public at large.
No posters in the UK International offices (per Coleman Bio) to promote the artists on their roster.
Richard and Karen treated like caricatures of musicians, instead of being glorified , by the record company(-ies?).
I have never, and will never, cower from professing my adoration of Carpenters to all whom I come into contact with, period.
UMG could have taken that stance long ago.