RICHARD : VILLAIN TO ANTI CHRIST ......

[PJ]

Looking forward to Randy's "Little Girl Blue " being delivered soon & interesting interviews & viewpoints of Karen's close friends, colleagues & admirers

One noticeable trend since Carpenters Internet Forums developed & expanded & especially since the belated 1996 release of Karen Carpenter solo Album is the hostility towards Richard .....

Whether discussing Karen's Album : Karen's later years : ill health : Karen's marriage : Richard's projects , later Carpenters releases there have been torrents of negative & hostile messages , comments & letters sent to Richard

Ironically most posters have never met Richard, discussed anything with Richard & some have scant understanding of his work or life : most baffingly many posters state they are life long Carpenters fans ( new definition ?) & then add we always loved Karen , only her voice , drumming etc etc & then dismiss Richard's role & contribution .....as I understand it Carpenters are Karen & Richard ....combined .....without each other .....is not Carpenters

I am awaiting Richard being declared new Anti-Christ by 2011 & being blamed for so much more .....

Perhaps Richard should have released Voice Of The Heart in 1983 , retired from music , married & just left Carpenters catalogue to A&M & future music companies ....but then some would have been attacking RC for doing just that .....

Peter UK

 

[CarpentersToYou]

We owe so many thanks to Richard. I can't stand when people talk that way. Richard's a fantastic artist and we're lucky to have anything that he's released since 1981!

 

[Geographer]

Bravo! Thank you, Peter. A point I have been trying to make for decades now. But be prepared to be in the minority and be attacked.

Long ago I left a particular blog (Newville Avenue, I think it was called) precisely becasue it seemed to exist only to bash Richard. I am glad I found A&M Corner, though, as the "focus" is more on the music and not on hating Richard (and Agnes, too, for that matter); although, lately, some of the same old outrageous and non-sense comments do show themselves.

With some; however, any form of logic will not suffice. In fact, when trying to use reason once with a fellow "anti-Richard" blogger, I was told my reasoned defense of Richard was the kind of logic that killed Karen. Go figure.

Anyway, I've come to learn that, for what ever reason, people love to hate and believe the worst in people...that there has to be a villain because that's what popular culture tells us. When, in reality, some things just "are what they are." No one is to blame yet everyone is to blame. Or maybe it is just that, to make sense out of Karen's senseless death (and achieve a feeling of justice in the whole situation), these people think someone must pay a price. And who is easier to point a finger at than Richard and his mother?

I'm with you Peter. I think we all owe Richard our thanks and respect; not accusations about how he and his mother conspired to kill Karen.

 

[Harry]

Peter, you're absolutely right, and try as I might around here, the threads continue to drift towards that anti-Richard sentiment, particularly when it comes to anything relating to the solo album. People sometimes skirt the issue, couch their accusations in vague terms, but underlying is always the sentiment that Richard Carpenter is somehow the villain in the story. And if he isn't, then Agnes is. And let's not leave out Herb Alpert - he's obviously the big money villain behind it all!

Please!

I'm with you and Geographer in this - and I assure you that there are plenty of sensible, thinking people here too. But people with positive attitudes tend not to express themselves as well -or as often - as those with their negative views.

If anyone has been a positive voice in Carpenters fandom, Peter, it's you. Your positive outlook is always a breath of fresh air in these threads. Don't let the negative Nellies get you down!

Harry

 

[coco]

I agree about the Anti-Richard Sentiment.
There are a few sites, like FINDADEATH.com, that give a very slanted view.
People believe things like that even though the story is hyped up.
They want Richard to be the Villian.
I read Pat Benatar's book and she mentioned the trouble she had with her record company, Chrstallis, Terry Ellis and the like.
I also mentioned something on the 'Little Girl Blue" thread how certain artists think they should change their image only to be rejected by not only their own fans but also the crowd they wanted to win over.

I am should the record company thought that the Carpenter fans liked their image and the Carpenters light lose their fans.

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Wow that is a harsh title for a thread. I think what really matters in the long run is how is Richard received in the public eye not from some internet forum. I think the reception he gets from the fans when he makes public appearances says it all. The reception he received at the Hollywood bowl was incredible and was filled with warm emotions. If he were to tour he would get the same responses.

 

[Harry]

The thread title is a bit over-the-top, but I understand where Peter is coming from.

Richard's reception in public is certainly warm. The problem is that he's not out there enough to overcome (in some's perception) the negative views one can read all over the Internet. One appearance a year to a limited number of people at a CPAC function is not exactly keeping in the public eye very much.

And that's his choice - and by no means am I disparaging him at all. Should he choose to tour and take that little Hollywood Bowl show on the road, well, more power to him, but he'll do what he wants to do.

But this is a guy, who for nearly 20 years now, has kept the "Carpenters" name out there and alive with more compilations and box sets than original albums, remixing, tinkering and trying to provide the audience with the best possible sound. That's someone to admire and encourage - not someone to cast aspersions on as if he's something nearly criminal in nature.

Yes, this thread is going to tend toward the exaggeration side - but, I feel, no more so than some of the other threads over the years have been that paint Richard in light that he doesn't deserve.

Harry

 

[Dave60640]

I think the best advice comes from RC himself when he said that he "prefers to focus on the CarpenterS music and legacy it leaves."
Everyone can play arm-chair psychologist/publicist but what does that really have to do with the fantastic CarpenterS musical catalog? (Other than peaking our interest for some more releases.)
While I may not be RC's bff, I know him to be to-the-point, honest, kind, fair and (at times) funny.

 

[no1kandrfan]

Great post - and long overdue.

I'm very thankful that Richard and Karen created such beautiful music together. Naturally I'm sorry that Karen is no longer with us - I mourn her life, cut short, and all of the music we could have had.

Beyond that we will never know the entire story, but I'm thankful that as time goes by we are able to read and learn more about their lives - it makes them 'human' to me, and when all is said and done, their family dynamic was no different then that of so many others.

 

[Daniel Perales]

Looking forward to Randy's "Little Girl Blue " being delivered soon & interesting interviews & viewpoints of Karen's close friends, colleagues & admirers

One noticeable trend since Carpenters Internet Forums developed & expanded & especially since the belated 1996 release of Karen Carpenter solo Album is the hostility towards Richard .....

Whether discussing Karen's Album : Karen's later years : ill health : Karen's marriage : Richard's projects , later Carpenters releases there have been torrents of negative & hostile messages , comments & letters sent to Richard

Ironically most posters have never met Richard, discussed anything with Richard & some have scant understanding of his work or life : most baffingly many posters state they are life long Carpenters fans ( new definition ?) & then add we always loved Karen , only her voice , drumming etc etc & then dismiss Richard's role & contribution .....as I understand it Carpenters are Karen & Richard ....combined .....without each other .....is not Carpenters

I am awaiting Richard being declared new Anti-Christ by 2011 & being blamed for so much more .....

Perhaps Richard should have released Voice Of The Heart in 1983 , retired from music , married & just left Carpenters catalogue to A&M & future music companies ....but then some would have been attacking RC for doing just that .....

Peter UK

Peter,

Thanks for saying this. I've been lurking for a few weeks on this board, wanting to reply to a few posts here that always seems to be "Hooray Karen, Boo Richard", but never really find the time and the right words to express it.

I remember discussing a particular issue with some Carpenter fans (not on this forum), about the album he produced for Akiko Kobayashi. They thought it was an abomination that Richard was working with another female that wasn't Karen.

Then, there are those who keep pestering him for more recordings of/with Karen, even though he keeps repeating that there's really nothing left worthwhile.

There are more things I like to add, but I don't have enough time right now.



Danny

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Harry your right it is a little over the top regarding the title. It's a great thread though that Peter has started. I'm just wondering would someone really search key words for this thread in the archive future? Perhaps something like Recognition for Richard or something like that once the thread had run it's course. A thread with this type of title may fuel heated discussions or maybe not. Seems ok for now. When I saw Richard and antichrist, I was like what??

 

[Harry]

Actually, I'm beginning to think that the thread and its title may become a legendary classic!

Harry

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

Then, there are those who keep pestering him for more recordings of/with Karen, even though he keeps repeating that there's really nothing left worthwhile.

That's based on his own definition of what "worthwhile" is. He's likely decided that the rest of Karen's solo tracks don't contain worthwhile vocals. There are a few other things too that seem to be deemed unworthy.

Ed

 

[goodjeans]

My guess is that Richard's version of "Some Guys Have All The Luck" is far better than that of Rod Stewart. I want to hear it. As far as his being the antichrist, well...if he is, the devil has enormous talent. His production, arrangement, song choices and more changed my life way back in 1970 and continue to embellish it to this day. Was he an a^^hole when I met him in 1975? Yes, but so what. He is a genius. He also sent an autographed photo after that incident which was above and beyond what most superstars would have done.

 

[Mark-T]

If Richard reads these discussions and doesn't read this thread- based on the title alone- I'd be shocked.

 

[Martin ellsworth]

I truly believe that the worst that can be said about Richard is that he is a control freak and a perfectionist, most genius's are. It's evident in his studio work and in trying to recreate the "sound" perfectly on stage. He adored Karen and would have never done anything to harm her. As a person who has recently recoved from eating disorders I can tell you that family and work relationships may give us the impetus to control our caloric intake, but we create the demons ourselves. It has to be the perfect storm of conditions coupled with our own self-esteem issues that results in the mental disorder.

 

[Daniel Perales]

My only problem is that Richard has done a poor job at keeping in touch with the fan base on all things Carpenters.

You mean the very same fan base who absolutely rejected him during his "Post-Karen" recording career?

We know for him its all about the music but that worked in the past but now we are in a different age.

I thought good music will always be good music no matter what era we're in.

So many things he has done we received no word from him.

I take it because every time that he's invited to an interview, the topic was always about Karen, and not about what he's doing at the present and his plans into the future.

Personally speaking, when my younger brother died years ago, I didn't mind talking to people about him. But it came to a point as to just how much I can keep talking about him without repeating the same thing over and over.

Ask me how and what I been doing lately for a change, since my life hasn't ended when my brother died.

I also wish we could have shared in his hurt process too cause we lost her too.

We lost a great singer. He lost a sister, a friend, a professional partner and a great singer all at the same time, but yet very few really cared about how he felt.

I don't understand why there isn't a really nice memorial from him on the website or allow the fans to write words of encouragement to him to help heal process.

Like: Hey Richard! Release more of Karen's recordings?



Danny

 

[cam89]

Well I think it was the general public that was not fond of TIME or PACC. Which is why it sold poorly.

I think RC is a great person, but I didn't become a fan of him upon hearing his music...it was Karen's voice that drew me in. But I did enjoy and loved his style of orchestration, lush harmonies and everything!! It's like you can't have one without the other.

But yeah, i think it would be neat to meet him, and ask him some questions.

I wish he would do a book on the Carpenters SOUND and PROCESS much like many older artists did...with mementos thrown in, like Abba did. And what songs were done on each recording process, and what the resulting album came to be, alternate album covers, single sleeves.

Letters of appreciation from other celebrities. Pictures with other celebrities etc.

That would be so awesome!!

My thoughts,
Cameron

 

[richard_sloat]

He adored Karen and would have never done anything to harm her.

Yeah... let's not forget where he comes out at his best in Little girl blue in my opinion, in the family session with Levenkron, when he, unlike Agnes, told Karen "unreservedly": "OF COURSE I love you!" I felt really touched as I read that!! Just like I feel touched as I watched he and Karen interact in these Music, music, music outtakes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwraJ54s9PM

"-He's really brilliant, isn't he?" and he laughs out loud, just like my sister does when I get to make her laugh!

ON THE OTHER WAY, according to Frenda Leffler, he told Karen her album was "S**T", right? Well, considering he was her BROTHER, not some stranger, I imagine he felt totally qualified to be straightforward to her. Perhaps he was just unprepared to deal with Karen's issues, as were everybody by that time.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

Several posts in this thread have been moved into two new threads in an effort to bring this thread back on track.

Chris- An Ordinary Fool made one post while the cleanup was in progress, and that post has been moved into the appropriate thread but it appears under my name, because I couldn't figure a way to move it and keep it under his name. (If any other staffers know a way to do this please let me know!)

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

My only problem is that Richard has done a poor job at keeping in touch with the fan base on all things Carpenters.

You mean the very same fan base who absolutely rejected him during his "Post-Karen" recording career?

Oh, come now. The fan base didn't reject him because he's Karen's brother. He was rejected because he made extremely poor choices with regards his solo output. "Time" is simply wretched and the last one isn't far behind in my opinion. It had little to do with him as a person. Heck, I don't even know him.

We know for him its all about the music but that worked in the past but now we are in a different age.

So many things he has done we received no word from him.

I take it because every time that he's invited to an interview, the topic was always about Karen, and not about what he's doing at the present and his plans into the future.

Karen's voice is a once-in-a-lifetime voice. He hooked himself up with it. He continues to benefit from her voice and will till the day he dies. It's done great things for him. Without her, no one knows who he is. I'm sure that sounds awful but the truth is the truth. He put out a solo record without her and it did nothing. He absolutely needed her. Had he pursued a production career, things might be quite different in that regard.

I also wish we could have shared in his hurt process too cause we lost her too.

We lost a great singer. He lost a sister, a friend, a professional partner and a great singer all at the same time, but yet very few really cared about how he felt.

Not to minimize but our grief compares in no way with his. You forgot to mention that he also lost the voice that has been the only output for his career. Put everything together and his pain had to be indescribable. Also, how he felt is really none of our business. I can't imagine people trying to force me to grieve in public. What right to we have to be part of that?

I don't understand why there isn't a really nice memorial from him on the website or allow the fans to write words of encouragement to him to help heal process.

Like: Hey Richard! Release more of Karen's recordings?

What, is someone going to ask him for more of his? How about the Xmas album that's been held up since Truman was in office? I really don't mean to be harsh but very few people, if any, care about his work. He undoubtedly knows this. That fact was totally under his control. He very easily could have started a producing career that likely would have been as fruitful as that of guys like David Foster. He certainly has the talent. Why he didn't do that is entirely beyond me. He chose to put his career in "dry dock" and, as a result, few people are interested in him singularly.

Ed

 

[Daniel Perales]

Well I think it was the general public that was not fond of TIME or PACC. Which is why it sold poorly.

Well, I'm talking about the "Carpenters" fans in general, not the general public. Let's face it, the general public has already just about written the "Carpenters" and other singers and groups of that time, off.

It's a shame, though, since groups like "Fleetwood Mac", "Chicago", "Earth Wind & Fire", and singers like Cher, Neil Diamond, Steve Windwood, Eric Clapton, and a few others had a resurgence not too long after.

Honestly, I was kind of disappointed on PACC not because of the quality of the music. I think the music was beautifully arranged, but I would have liked it if it was all new and original things in it, not just instrumentals of their old hits. :|

I think RC is a great person, but I didn't become a fan of him upon hearing his music...it was Karen's voice that drew me in. But I did enjoy and loved his style of orchestration, lush harmonies and everything!! It's like you can't have one without the other.

Funny, I could think like it was the opposite for me. I loved Karen's voice, don't get me wrong, that's what got my attention. What kept my interest was Richard's style of arrangements, harmonies, and everything!

I can still hear and enjoy his style with the albums he produced for others like "Akiko", and "Veronique" and a few tracks from "Scott Gimes", and two Christmas songs that he produced for Seiko Matsuda ("Christmas Turned Blue", and "December Morn").

But yeah, i think it would be neat to meet him, and ask him some questions.

I would love to shake his hand and say Thank You!.

I wish he would do a book on the Carpenters SOUND and PROCESS much like many older artists did...with mementos thrown in, like Abba did. And what songs were done on each recording process, and what the resulting album came to be, alternate album covers, single sleeves.

Letters of appreciation from other celebrities. Pictures with other celebrities etc.

That would be so awesome!!

Maybe he'll do that one day. As long as it's about The Carpenters.



Danny

 

[Daniel Perales]

My only problem is that Richard has done a poor job at keeping in touch with the fan base on all things Carpenters.

You mean the very same fan base who absolutely rejected him during his "Post-Karen" recording career?

Oh, come now. The fan base didn't reject him because he's Karen's brother. He was rejected because he made extremely poor choices with regards his solo output. "Time" is simply wretched and the last one isn't far behind in my opinion. It had little to do with him as a person. Heck, I don't even know him.

Well, that is your opinion. There are others, like me who thinks that his solo album is more superior than Karen's. But I can't really disagree with you about his second one (for different reasons).

I take it because every time that he's invited to an interview, the topic was always about Karen, and not about what he's doing at the present and his plans into the future.

Karen's voice is a once-in-a-lifetime voice. He hooked himself up with it. He continues to benefit from her voice and will till the day he dies. It's done great things for him. Without her, no one knows who he is. I'm sure that sounds awful but the truth is the truth. He put out a solo record without her and it did nothing. He absolutely needed her.

Karen's solo album was eventually released, and it did nothing, either. So, in retrospect, they needed each other. At least "Something In Your Eyes" was getting considerable air-play here when it came out. Too bad the album was hard to find in stores in the first place.

Had he pursued a production career, things might be quite different in that regard.

Well, he did produced albums for other people.
Akiko Kobayashi's "City Of Angels" album in Japan, which was called just "Akiko", here in it's USA release, Veronique Beliveau's "Veronique" album that was only released in Canada (as far as I know).
I don't really know how these albums did in their respective countries, but I know that "Scott Grimes" self-titled album did flop here in the USA.


I'm going to skip the rest since we're just going to go on in circles, here.



Danny

 

[richard_sloat]

It's a shame, though, since groups like "Fleetwood Mac", "Chicago", "Earth Wind & Fire", and singers like Cher, Neil Diamond, Steve Windwood, Eric Clapton, and a few others had a resurgence not too long after.

That seems to be coming with the package of Cher's career, she's RESURGING all the time and I think will be FOREVER! Isn't there a joke out there about she and the cockroaches being the last survivors of a nuclear world war??

 

[richard_sloat]

Karen's solo album was eventually released, and it did nothing, either. So, in retrospect, they needed each other.

That is TOTALLY NOT fair. Karen had been deceased for thirteen years before it came out plus I read there were virtually no promotion for it. We CAN NOT KNOW how things would carry out if it was out in 1980. By 1996 it was a totally DATED sound and surely it would get no air play and stuff, it was just a relic. That was totally not the case for Richard's first album.