SONG BY SONG: "KAREN CARPENTER" (SP-4804/CD-0588)

[Tapdancer]

Geographer - Just hum that theme, and at the very least we know you'll be moved by Paul Williams' sublime lyric:

A -anddd Lo-o-o-ove,
(da-da da da da-daaa)
Ex-it-ing and new,
(daa daa daaa daa daa daaa ...)
Come aboard,
(da-da da-daaaa, da-da da da da-daaa)
We'rexxx Spect-ing you-u-u-u

Magic! In fact, Paul Williams himself on his website home page says he'll probably be best remembered for Love Boat, and for his role in "Smokey and the Bandit"

 

[Chris Mills]

Paul Williams wrote the theme for "Love Boat"? Is that the same Paul Williams that wrote that song for the Crocker Bank? Clever guy!! Rainbow Connection is a great song, wish Karen had sung that with Kermit on the Muppet Show! Miss Piggy could have thrown a jealousy rage, I can visualise it now..........so funny!!

 

[Harry]

Harry

 

[Chris Mills]

Harry

OK........there's the proof........that's so funny. Even Richard was amazed to have a hit single from a bank commercial, that A&M team were working overtime!

 

[Chris Mills]

It has to be said that Paul Williams & Roger Nichols wrote some incredible songs......my favourite has to be "Let Me Be The One" .........with the best version found on "From The Top"......it's been remixed and you have Karen sounding as if this song is fun to sing about.......Karen had that ability to interpret whatever kind of emotion Richard could find in a song. Their musical relationship is so deep and entwined, you really do feel sorry for Phil Ramone, he had the task to be Karen's big brother......when Richard was in some kind of melt down. This is no easy task, you have to take the place of her brother, give Karen the confidence that she is able to interpret songs that were untouchable because of that so "precious" Carpenters image that A&M were so driven to sell to the record buying public.

So not all the songs on the solo album were going to be Carpenter classic songs, but any artist who goes solo after a successful collaboration career, is going to find it tough, because you will always be compared to what made you successful in the first place.

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Even though she's too damned thin in this photo, Karen looks very much 'in command' here. I love this shot! That's definitely from the solo sessions.

Wow, I so agree with you Retro. I love photos of Karen in the studio, especially this one with being her solo album. Karen right in her element and she does look in charge of what's going on....either she's listening to a playback or possibly watching the guys getting familiar with the track. The guy next to her is pulling on the sliders and both are looking ahead like their watching something. A moment in time captured forever.....

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

We currently have a tie:

If I Had You (7 votes)

My Body Keeps Changing My Mind (7 votes)


Hey, how about this as the single, If I Had You (side a), My Body Keeps Changing My Mind (side b)

 

[Mark-T]

Only if its a double A side!

 

[GaryAlan]

I've been ever so subtly playing some Karen Carpenter solo songs while the nieces and nephews
are around (they being in their 20s) and, so far, the reaction has been positive.
Listen to the 'new' Justin Timberlake song currently on the charts, and see that Karen's solo work
is superior to that.

 

[mr J.]

I'm with you. Karen did not always go along with the song selection. This from the Ask Joe Osborne thread, he relates a testy recording session:
"after a couple of hours and several pots of coffee I was feeling better---so we started on the next song. KAREN HATED THE SONG!!! I don’t remember what it was but I’m sure Richard does. .....................Richard is trying to convince Karen that the song is great--- and she is in total disagreement! He doesn’t like the sound of the bass. By now he’s not having a very good time. .........

Karen did not have any say in this. Why didn't she just have the gumption to say "I hate this song and I'm not recording it?". Any other great singer (and she WAS the singer) would have had the clout.

The session with Joe Osborn that you are referring to is Karen's final session from April 1982.She recorded several tracks during that session-and there was obviously one that she didn't like.There's a few tracks from that session that have never been released,and that particular track is,in all likelihood,one of them.

People are overlooking a very important fact in this situation: there are still dozens of outtakes sitting in the vaults,and they are sitting in the vault for a very good reason-either Karen wasn't happy with them or Richard wasn't happy with them.

 

[aaflyer98]

Mr. J., is this the session Joe Osborn described as 'the session from Hell?" What a shame if it was, because it was Karen's last.

 

[MissK]

The session with Joe Osborn that you are referring to is Karen's final session from April 1982.She recorded several tracks during that session-and there was obviously one that she didn't like.There's a few tracks from that session that have never been released,and that particular track is,in all likelihood,one of them.

People are overlooking a very important fact in this situation: there are still dozens of outtakes sitting in the vaults,and they are sitting in the vault for a very good reason-either Karen wasn't happy with them or Richard wasn't happy with them.

There are undoubtedly many tracks recorded throughout their career that were never released for one reason or another. That’s a no-brainer and I doubt a fact not overlooked by anyone. But, you’ve missed my point – my point being that if she HATED (sic) the song, not the final track but the song itself, she shouldn’t have had to record it in the first place. Whether it was eventually released or not for reasons unknown (and we don’t know because JO can’t remember the name of the song) is not even relevant.
Perhaps this depicts Karen's complaint that she wasn't told what she was going to sing until she got to the studio, a situation no other singer would have to tolerate.

 

[GaryAlan]

MissK makes a pertinent and very good point.
The documentation substantiates the fact that even when Karen hated the song, it was still a song she recorded, as per Richard's behest.
Obviously, if Richard hated a song, he never presented the song to Karen for recording, to begin with.
The "Rainbow Connection", being a case in point. Karen hated the song.( That is a well documented fact.)
It is (was) certainly more than an outtake. Karen recorded the song because Richard wanted her to record it, otherwise
Karen would not have recorded that song.
Another point at issue here. Just because a song doesn't make it on an album, does not imply that it is unworthy of such:
Honolulu City Lights, Look to You Dreams, You're the One, Where Do We Go From Here, Uninvited Guest, Kiss Me the Way You
Did Last Night,......just to name a few.
Thus, just because Richard held a song off of an album, does not imply the song was bad, look at the caliber of the above list.
Even if there are outtakes remaining (and, who knows for sure, except Richard Carpenter), those outtakes could very well match
the caliber of the above mentioned songs.
And, if there is an unreleased 1982 recording(s) (who knows that?where is that documented?),
as Richard has stated regarding the song "Now":"...Karen never sounded lovelier", it is stretching credibility to believe
that Richard would have kept it off of a release, if it sounded as good.
Finally, in the interview regarding the songs on Voice of the Heart, Richard makes the point that the songs are not outtakes,
merely left off of previous releases for one reason or another (see my previous post which contains the entire interview).
Now, it seems, Richard has changed his mind on many of those songs, and would have opted for the opposite claim.
The fact remains, and is well-documented, if Richard wanted the song recorded, he had Karen record the song, regardless of her
opinion of that song.Whether he chose to release the song,or not, is an entirely separate issue.

 

[Mark-T]

I can see why Karen would still record a song she didn't like. She trusted Richard's instincts- at least while the hit kept coming.

 

[GaryAlan]

Mstaft, I surely wish Richard had trusted Karen, likewise, for her song selection on the solo album.
She recorded about twenty songs (?) for the solo album, certainly she needed some support as a solo act.

 

[mr J.]

Mr. J., is this the session Joe Osborn described as 'the session from Hell?" What a shame if it was, because it was Karen's last.

Yes-evidently it was.

K&R did several sessions in that 2-3 week period-as Richard was trying to get as much recording done as possible during Karen's return to California.That session with Joe Osborn was evidently one of them.

The final 1982 sessions were probably not the typical recording sessions-as Richard had selected the material & charted the arrangements while Karen was in New York for her therapy.I believe she flew back to LA unexpectedly for that two week break & Richard,most likely,tried to put the sessions together on short notice.Hence,this would account for that session being a little haphazard.

 

[mr J.]

There are undoubtedly many tracks recorded throughout their career that were never released for one reason or another. That’s a no-brainer and I doubt a fact not overlooked by anyone. But, you’ve missed my point – my point being that if she HATED (sic) the song, not the final track but the song itself, she shouldn’t have had to record it in the first place. Whether it was eventually released or not for reasons unknown (and we don’t know because JO can’t remember the name of the song) is not even relevant.
Perhaps this depicts Karen's complaint that she wasn't told what she was going to sing until she got to the studio, a situation no other singer would have to tolerate.

Actually,many recording artists do a work lead and test vocal on a particular song to determine if it would be a suitable track for them.Once the basic track & test vocal is done,the artist can make a more focused decision on a particular track-if they should continue the recording process,or can it.

We have to also remember that Karen was the recording artist-not the producer,arranger and songwriter.Karen needed the right type of material,the classy arrangements and a skilled producer to make her sound good.Richard was that brilliant combination of all three-and he knew what to do with her voice.

We could look at two tracks that Karen didn't particularly care for: "Solitaire" and "Ordinary Fool"-these are two of K&R's all-time finest recordings that showcase Karen's incredible vocal prowess.And yet,if it had been left up to Karen,we probably wouldn't have them.

 

[mr J.]

I've been ever so subtly playing some Karen Carpenter solo songs while the nieces and nephews
are around (they being in their 20s) and, so far, the reaction has been positive.
Listen to the 'new' Justin Timberlake song currently on the charts, and see that Karen's solo work
is superior to that.

Comparing Karen to Justin Timberlake is a contradiction in terms. Karen is the greatest torch singer on the planet. Justin is a bubblegum pop star who will be forgotten in twenty years from now.

 

[GaryAlan]

Yes, Mr.J., your comment reminds me of the same way that many critics dismissed the Carpenters and their music in the 1970's.
How many, in those days, would have predicted that Karen would still be remembered in 2014?
How often were the Carpenters dismissed in the 1970's?
Carpenters, if I recall, were referred to as Bubblegum in the 1970's (see: Richard's 1975 Compendium interview).
I was not comparing Karen, as a vocalist to Justin Timberlake. You are correct, that would be absurd.
My primary statement referred to the fact that (some) youngsters of today connect easier with Karen's solo material, than the earlier
Carpenters' material. And, of course, You are correct, Karen is the greatest singer ever.
My Timberlake reference is only used as an indication that Karen's solo material, even if dated, does resonate
with someone other than a hardcore Carpenters' fan ( such as myself).
Timberlake's current chart-topper has arrangements eerily similar to some of Karen's upbeat solo songs.
He is presently a force on the music charts, how he will be remembered in 20,30,40 years, I do not know.....nor do I care.

 

[MissK]

Actually,many recording artists do a work lead and test vocal on a particular song to determine if it would be a suitable track for them.Once the basic track & test vocal is done,the artist can make a more focused decision on a particular track-if they should continue the recording process,or can it.

We have to also remember that Karen was the recording artist-not the producer,arranger and songwriter.Karen needed the right type of material,the classy arrangements and a skilled producer to make her sound good.Richard was that brilliant combination of all three-and he knew what to do with her voice.

We could look at two tracks that Karen didn't particularly care for: "Solitaire" and "Ordinary Fool"-these are two of K&R's all-time finest recordings that showcase Karen's incredible vocal prowess.And yet,if it had been left up to Karen,we probably wouldn't have them.

There is a big difference between "didn't particularly care for" and "HATE". And though Richard was talented he was not Karen's boss. This session as described by JO reeks of the "do what I say, you're just the stupid singer" attitude and some deference should have been paid her.

Actually, if this session was in April '82 (and we don't really know because JO didn't specify a date) she shouldn't have been recording at all. She was too sick.

 

[aaflyer98]

Its such a clash of emotions. I understand the whole "its an outtake or on the shelf for a reason" logic. But then there's the fact that Karen's gone, been gone since 1983, and I want anything or everything she ever recorded. I know it's not possible, it's just a longing for more of the great singer who was taken from us way too soon.

 

[BGW]

I've always loved The Rainbow Connection, partially for that reason. It's amazing to me that she could sing a song that she strongly disliked so sweetly and beautifully. If you didn't know otherwise, you could think it was her favorite if you were just listening to it.

 

[A&M Retro]

Yeah, Karen was the consummate professional. She could pull off anything once she set her mind to it.

On another note, Billboard's Paul Grein interviewed Richard in October, 1983, as part of the promotional push for 'Voice of the Heart'. Richard states that there were four tracks recorded in April, 1982 ('You're Enough', 'Now' and two others). It's likely one of those unreleased tracks is the one she strongly disliked.

There are purportedly others that feature Richard's lead which were recorded around the same time. Not sure if that was just to get a 'feel' for a song he had planned ahead for Karen to sing or not. I would bet he sang lead on a few of them while she was away in NYC.

 

[GaryAlan]

Thanks for the above reference, A&MRetro, as that Billboard article by Paul Grein is one
that I have never seen. But, I will peruse its content!
Another spectacular day when I learn something new!

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

On another note, Billboard's Paul Grein interviewed Richard in October, 1983, as part of the promotional push for 'Voice of the Heart'. Richard states that there were four tracks recorded in April, 1982 ('You're Enough', 'Now' and two others). It's likely one of those unreleased tracks is the one she strongly disliked.

Joe also played bass on both You're Enough and Now and since this was all one session, he probably also played on the other 2 as well. I bet this is the "session from hell" as he put it and this means there is another track or two with full leads from Karen. I wonder if Joe let this information slip out in error. I hate to think that her last recording session was the "session from hell".

Karen had a way about her and whatever may have been going on during any of her recordings....she never let it reflect in how her delivery performance came across. Solitaire and The Rainbow Connection are my all time favorites and Karen sings them like they are her favorites as well. Richard gave us Rainbow Connection however these other 2 we will likely never see if in fact they are from the "session from hell."

Mr J is quoted Here as saying that the last recording session could have filled a whole album....I was not aware that they recorded that much material. So there are more than just a few tracks.