Spotlight: DEFINITIVE HITS

[lorelei]

I remember purchasing this CD because it was the only TJB/Alpert title available besides the much-older, single-disc, TJB Greatest Hits at my local record store. I didn't realize at the time just how extensive both catalogues were, but nonetheless could recognize that this was a very brief overview of all the music I'd heard.

Now that I'm older and wiser, I only need one word to define this collection: UNIVERSAL ! There is no greater enemy to music lovers in the entire industry. They are SO notorious for reducing huge catalogues of great music into countless, repetitive Greatest Hits collections, made up entirely of radio hits. They have done this to Jack Jones for over 40 years now. They inherited about 20 Jones albums from Kapp in '67 - every one of them BRILLIANT and as good as anything Sinatra or Bennett have ever recorded - yet most of this music remains buried in their archives. Pianist Roger Williams also recorded his best work with Kapp. Now in his mid-80s, Williams finally decided that he wanted to control what happened to his work, which also remained unreleased for over 4 decades, so he was forced to buy back his masters from Universal, just so his music could have a FUTURE. What a DESPICABLE company.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

he was forced to buy back his masters from Universal, just so his music could have a FUTURE. What a DESPICABLE company.

They are not a despicable company. They're a company that has stockholders who want the company to make money. Releasing greatest-hits collections of artists who were popular 40 or more years ago makes more money than releasing dozens of albums that would not sell enough to make it worth the trouble.

If an artist wants to "contol his own destiny," he's always free to negotiate his catalog ownership back, and then do with it what he wants. That's what Herb Alpert did.

 

[lorelei]

Yes, all that is true, Mike. I obviously was speaking from an emotional and artistic standpoint, and should have stated that. The artistic side of me is disappointed, because I never realized what an incredible album artist Jack Jones had been. His Kapp albums are rightfully part of the Great American Songbook, and didn't end up being recognized as such, due to the sudden sale of Kapp and the domination of rock 'n' roll in '67. Again, that's an artistic observation and nothing more. In getting back to the original topic, I find Universal's greatest hits collections to be very unsatisfying, and I would probably avoid them in the future, for most artists. But in the case of Jack Jones' Greatest Hits (MCA), the quality of the recordings led me to seek more, so in the end, it wasn't all bad. I got CD copies made of his unreleased vinyl LPs, love every one of them, and rarely reach for that Greatest Hits CD anymore. Economics might prohibit what I'd really like - official, remastered copies - but at least the music is still available, and I'm happy living in the past.

 

[thetijuanataxi]

The same can be said about the catalogs of Tom Jones and Engelbert Humperdinck. Both had at least a dozen hit albums that made them superstars and we have NEVER seen them released on CD. Just countless compilations featuring the radio hits and some album cuts from the various LPs over and over again. Universal and other large labels may have an obligation to their stockholders, but geez, from an artistic and aficianado standpoint, they're pathetic.

David

 

[Mike Blakesley]

Well that's why smaller companies like Shout!Factory, Collectibles, etc. exist; they can buy the rights to those oldie catalogs and release the albums to an audience that's ready to buy that music. It's called niche marketing.

 

[lorelei]

How is Herb's solo career viewed today? Is it considered marketable? I once owned LPs of Rise, Magic Man, Beyond and Fandango, then gave them all away. It seemed that every LP I owned was getting issued on CD, so I assumed Herb's albums all would be too. Instead, I was later shocked to find out that his titles had been deleted from the A&M catalogue. So, that led me to the Definitive Hits CD and my disappointment with it. Understandably, Rise made it to CD, being such a big commercial hit. But now I ponder the titles I once owned, and other, later releases, wondering if I should re-buy the LPs and get them copied. And it's interesting to read here about the high resale value of an old Fandango CD release, and not see a record company wanting to issue it again to satisfy that demand. Do the prospects look good for Herb's solo titles to make the transition onto CD?

 

[Steve Sidoruk]

And it's interesting to read here about the high resale value of an old Fandango CD release, and not see a record company wanting to issue it again to satisfy that demand. Do the prospects look good for Herb's solo titles to make the transition onto CD?

Although this topic has been covered before in other threads, I'll quickly comment. Shout! Factory is still Herb's re-issue label. Fandango and Midnight Sun were the titles due for release, but have been "back burnered." The focus now is on new material. Maybe if the new release does well, that interest in all Herb's back catalog will spur more re-issues. In the meantime, you can search the various sources for the A&M versions of the CDs that you are missing or round up vinyl copies and digitize yourself, as some have done. Good luck!

 

[Rudy]

Still, these kind of compilations are for the casual fans and those that have the "Oh, I remember him" attitude.

To be honest, this is still the best-selling TJB title at Amazon (via our Corner links), only with Whipped Cream solidly giving it a run for its money. I'm no big fan of the selection or sequencing but like others, this release wasn't so much for me as it was for the nostalgia set. I do have a copy (curious ablut the tube mastering mainly), but I rarely play it either. Heck, I can program the same song order in Zune using a play list, with all of my original album version already on there.

Classics 1 and Classics 20 would make a great 2-CD "Best Of" reissue IMHO, but it remains to be seen who, where, how, etc. any compilations would be released. Probably a contractual issue with Universal still, until the deal with "Definitive Hits" runs out.

Basically if you're a TJB fan, you don't need this CD. You already own all the music.

 

[Marty]

As far as compilations go, I would have to vote this as worst with classics 1 being the best. I can't explain it but I just don't like the order or even the sound quailty of the CD. It all sounds muffled. I played it once or twice & put it in the back of my collection, never to surface again!!

 

[Harry]

As far as compilations go, I would have to vote this as worst with classics 1 being the best. I can't explain it but I just don't like the order or even the sound quailty of the CD. It all sounds muffled. I played it once or twice & put it in the back of my collection, never to surface again!!

Do me a favor. Get out both CLASSICS I and DEFINITIVE HITS. Listen to "Casino Royale" on both and tell me which sounds better to you.

I say that because I think overall the mastering on DEFINITIVE HITS, despite the dropouts, is actually pretty good. What might be fooling you is that "The Lonely Bull's" mono version on DEF. HITS is a bit veiled-sounding compared to the stereo version that we've all heard a thousand times.

Harry

 

[David S]

there are certainly tunes I like that are not on this compilation: Manhattan Melody (Magic Man), Stranger on the Shore (KYEOM), It's All For You (Wild Romance), Love Without Words (Bullish), 1980 (Rise), I can't Stop Thinking About You (North on South Street). And then there are non-A&M stuff I would add: Chasing Shadows, Winter Wonderland (Jazz to the World), Sugar Cane (Second Wind), and few from Lost Treasures...

maybe you shoud try to develop the A&M Corner GH set for him, replete with suggestions on cd case design, liner notes, and so on. . . .

 

[Mike Blakesley]

Problem is, Herb just has too many records out to possibly cover anything but the highlights on a one-disk set. Even a two-disk set could never cover every worthy track, and I guarantee that any list of tracks on a box set will undoubtedly leave out somebody's favorite tune.

 

[Rudy]

Any compilation is going to cover the hits--that's what sells to the masses. "Favorites" rarely make an appearance on a compilation, although they can sometimes surface on box sets. I just see "Definitive Hits" as a product, one that makes consistent money for the company. The collectors among us had to get it, of course , but to say that it would satisfy diehard fans is a gross misstatement.

One other good example of a band that has been "Universalized" is Yellowjackets: despite having numerous albums on MCA and GRP, now all they get is a compilation every few years. There is still some demand for their titles (they still sell on the Jackets' official site whatever they can get ahold of), but you can bet you'll probably not see these reissued in the forseeable future. And what's even worse is that since a jazz/fusion band does not have charting "hits" (they are album artists), they routinely miss the mark on "fan favorites", songs that are always requested at live gigs, or get radio play. The same can be said for the numerous others that were on MCA and/or GRP over the years...unless they're still wildly popular.

It's all about $$$$$$$$ anymore...

 

[gameenjoyer]

Rather than start a new topic, I thought I'd come back to this topic to ask something. It would appear that plans to release the solo albums into the Signature Series have been massively delayed. With the exception of a cassette of Beyond that I miraculously found in a thrift store, the Signature Series discs (as well as the CD versions of Foursider and Classics, Volume 1) are all I have [well, other than a four of the old albums and one single on record, but I don't have easy access to a working record player anymore and Warm is the only album I have that I don't have access to the tracks from on CD also (one of the four is Greatest Hits)].

So, anyway, I've been thinking lately that maybe I should break down after all and buy a copy of Definitive Hits for the five solo tracks on it that I've never heard. Is the cost of the CD worth it for those few tracks, or am I crazy for considering it?

 

[Rudy]

Which solo tracks do you want to hear? Unfortunately, Classics Vol. 20 is out of print, and pricing could be variable. Amazon has a couple of copies under $15. If it has the solo tracks you want to hear, by all means grab that one instead. However, it will not have anything like "Diamonds" on it, as that was from Keep Your Eye On Me, which was released after the A&M Classics series.

If you grabbed Classics 20 and Keep Your Eye, though, you'd have anything on Definitive Hits covered, and a lot more good music.

Actually, if you already own Rise, getting Keep Your Eye On Me and Fandango (impossible to find on CD affordably) would cover anything else on Definitive Hits that you don't already have. Herb had other minor hits that are covered on Classics, like "Beyond", "Magic Man", and a few others that got some radio airplay. Definitive Hits only covers three of his solo albums.

 

[Mr Bill]

Speaking of the solo albums being "delayed" by Shout!Factory, the July S!F Newsletter gives a mention of "our old friend Herb Alpert" having recorded something new with his wife Lani and to look for their new CD... But nary a mention of anything coming in the future for the Signature Series...

--Mr. Bill
odd promoting a release from another label if you ask me -- unless the same distributor handles Concord in addition to S!F...

 

[Rudy]

At least it still shows that the reissues are still with Shout!Factory.

 

[Steve Sidoruk]

I think that they are hoping that success of the new release will generate interest in both Herb & Lani's back catalogs. The question then is, what will be done about it???

 

[gameenjoyer]

Rudy, the simple answer to your question is "the five that I haven't heard before that are on that CD". Rise and Beyond are the only solo albums that I have access to (well, and a DTS copy of Passion Dance that I bought not realizing that I didn't have a player that could play it and which I have therefore never heard). Your idea to buy Fandango and Keep Your Eye On Me is something I would certainly do if I could find copies of them. Remember, I'm the guy who's scared to buy anything online, and I imagine that copies of most of the solo albums would be hard to come by in the wild, although I would certainly buy a copy of any of the solo albums that I don't yet have if I could find them. I mean, I still have yet to be able to find a copy of the Signature Series release of Christmas Album despite a valiant search last holiday season. Maybe the upcoming holiday season will be my lucky year on that, who knows?

Anyway, the point is this. Time and time again I've looked at the Alpert section in this store or that store or the other store and copies of Definitive Hits sit there mocking me both by their being the only thing most stores that carry anything Alpert carry anymore and by the fact that there are five tracks on it that I've never heard. When I had thought that continued releases of other solo albums were imminent, I had decided to wait. Now those releases don't look so imminent and I want to have access to every Alpert song I can, so the thought of buying a copy of that CD is starting to make a little bit of sense to me for the five tracks on it that I've never heard. That's why I'm asking if those five tracks are worthwhile enough to purchase the CD for.

 

[toeknee4bz]

I say you should go ahead and buy DEFINITIVE HITS. Even if not for the unheard tracks, you'll undoubtedly enjoy the full-color booklet and the liner notes.

Tony

 

[Rudy]

Tony has a good point: Definitive Hits does have good liner notes, and I'll add that it has a nice sound to it.

We probably look at this differently. If I knew there were out of print CDs with the songs I wanted, I'd probably keep trying to track them down, instead of getting just a few extra tracks on a compilation CD. In my case, I'd probably get a used copy if I stumbled across one.

Amazon has Definitive Hits on sale for, I think $10.97 (last time I looked), so if you are looking locally, it's possible you may find one on sale also at some point. If you have a Border's near you, for instance, sign up for their e-mails, and they'll send you messages about sales and promotions. Sometimes I see a 25% off coupon for one single item. Or buy 3, get 1 free. (I scored some of those wonderful RCA Living Stereo SACDs for about $8.50 during one of their sales.)

 

[Mike Blakesley]

The reason most stores are only stocking Def Hits is because it's the top Herb seller. DH and WHIPPED CREAM top the list at our warehouse. Stores like ours, that are stocking the full available catalog, are hard to find!

 

[Mr Bill]

The reason most stores are only stocking Def Hits is because it's the top Herb seller. DH and WHIPPED CREAM top the list at our warehouse. Stores like ours, that are stocking the full available catalog, are hard to find!

While that is true, I'll use the argument I used to use -- modified to fit DEF HITS -- when I'd special order items at stores back in the "glory days"...

STORE BUYER: We only carry Definitive Hits because it is the biggest seller.
ME: And as long as stores like yours ONLY carry that one and none of the others it will continue to be the best seller.

The same thing happens in the book business. Stores will order 500 copies of Stephen King's new book and only two of one by a new (yet skilled) author and then claim King "outsells the new guy 250 to 1!" Then the publisher will dump the "new" author for poor sales. It doesn't help that the publishing companies have virtually eliminated midlist or b-level authors and publishing programs... They're all looking for the next Vince Flyyn, Stephen King, Jeffrey Deaver or Dean R. Koontz for their stable... And so it goes.*

--Mr. Bill
*thanls to Kurt Vonnegut for that delightful phrase...

 

[Mike Blakesley]

We used to buy from a warehouse called Pickwick International. (They owned the Musicland group of stores.) Their philosophy was to ship us at least one of almost everything, and a whole lot of anything they "thought" was going to be huge. We had to take all this stuff, but the good thing was we had 90 days to pay and we could return 100% of what we bought if it didn't sell. Well, the "unknown" stuff that we would put out (and even give in-store play to) would continue to sit there, while the top-of-chart music was nearly always the biggest seller.

People are like sheep -- they will buy what they're told to buy, for the most part. All you have to do is look at the Michael Jackson sales figures for proof. Unfortunately there are not enough 'mavericks' like all of us here to make enough difference in sales to get anyone's attention.

There was one big exception to the above in my experience: April Wine. (Canadian rock group on Capitol records, biggest hits "Just Between You and Me" and "Sign of the Gypsy Queen.") When we got our automatic shipment of their album THE WHOLE WORLD'S GOIN' CRAZY, I was intrigued by the cover and decided to try it out. I liked it a lot and continued to play it in-store. Almost eveyrone who came in loved it and bought it. As a result we sold more April Wine than any store in Montana (according to our warehouse guy) for a couple of years, until they finally caught the national spotlight and started to sell decently everywhere. So, it CAN happen but it's not as common as it should be.

 

[Rudy]

The reason most stores are only stocking Def Hits is because it's the top Herb seller. DH and WHIPPED CREAM top the list at our warehouse. Stores like ours, that are stocking the full available catalog, are hard to find!

Border's had the Signature Series releases as they came out, but I don't know what they have on hand these days. My top two Amazon sellers are the same: DH and Whipped Cream, by far.