Carpenters 55th Anniversary Celebration - April 2024 in Downey

[newvillefan]

^^^ I wouldn't have been bothered if I'd never heard a Richard lead either. He's heard plenty on the backing vocals and that's where he sounds amazing. It's like being an Olivia fan and hearing John Farrar on back up. It doesn't make me think "oh I'd love to hear him on his own".

That said, he was left with little choice but to release his own album after Karen's passing and, had I never heard him sing lead before, I would still have loved it, because it's rich with all of his usual Carpenters vocal and orchestral arranging licks.

 

[Boondoggle]

as his leads disappeared entirely by "Horizon."

So did their record sales, except for Christmas Portrait, which he sang on A coincidence? Yeah, probably. But still, one or two songs out of like 12 isn't a big deal, it's not that serious

 

[Carl]

"The Night Has a Thousand Eyes" is great

So is Fun Fun Fun

 

[newvillefan]

So did their record sales, except for Christmas Portrait, which he sang on A coincidence? Yeah, probably.

Their record sales didn't decline because Richard stopped doing leads . The sales declined because every dog has its day. Trends change, fans grow up and groups slide into mediocrity.

 

[Boondoggle]

Their record sales didn't decline because Richard stopped doing leads

I know, it was a joke. I'm gonna keep saying that's the reason, though. Clearly the masses craved a fun Richard song

 

[PaulinUK]

For those interested in hearing my conversation with Richard last Saturday evening in Downey, here’s the link:

I just loved every minute of this. Thank you for sharing it, especially for those of us who couldn’t be there in person. The presentations at the end unexpectedly had the effect of making me rather emotional, especially that plaque. And Richard seemed really moved too. Bravo everyone who made this event what it was!

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

^^^ I wouldn't have been bothered if I'd never heard a Richard lead either. He's heard plenty on the backing vocals and that's where he sounds amazing. It's like being an Olivia fan and hearing John Farrar on back up. It doesn't make me think "oh I'd love to hear him on his own".

That said, he was left with little choice but to release his own album after Karen's passing and, had I never heard him sing lead before, I would still have loved it, because it's rich with all of his usual Carpenters vocal and orchestral arranging licks.

Ha, your first sentence contradicts your last reply. If you had never heard a single lead from Richard you would have missed out on the richness of his usual Carpenters vocal and arrangements. Isn’t it always better to have more than less? More music or less music? With Carpenters it’s never enough.

I tend to disagree with several posts here. I enjoy Richard’s leads on the earlier albums. I feel like it all happened the way it was suppose to so I disagree with Richard statement that he shouldn’t have sung lead on the earlier album. Like all things as we get older we soften our hearts and perspectives change.

There is no one who compliments Olivia better than John Farrar’s backing vocals. In fact I loved them so much that sought out his solo album John Farrar, I own the see for miles CD and I own a WLP LP and love his lead vocals. He actually recorded 3 songs on his solo album that Olivia recorded as well including Falling, It’ll Be Me Babe and Recovery that I love. He has an incredibly high range and that led me to find his very early work with The Shadows which has some wonderful lead songs by him.

So I think because of how much I’ve enjoyed both Richard and John Farrar as backup singers has made me like their solo work as well. I don’t particularly like all of Richard’s solo album but that has more to do with the production, overuse of electronics and his vocals sound artificially enhanced (wrong range for him?) and don’t sound natural.

 

[newvillefan]

Ha, your first sentence contradicts your last reply. If you had never heard a single lead from Richard you would have missed out on the richness of his usual Carpenters vocal and arrangements.

A Richard lead vocal and a Richard vocal arrangement (whoever the singer is) are two completely different things

 

[hannahtobin]

I thought so too, Mark I was quite moved by the entire video.

One of the great stories I’ve always wondered about was the Steel Guitar lick intro on Top of the World - Red Rhodes vs Buddy Emmons. Richard Filled the holes in perfectly in the video and I just love the way he tells that story. I remember reading an interview with Buddy Emmons from 2006 on this and even Buddy wasn't sure why Richard had Red Rhodes do the lick in the intro One more example of Richard being brilliant.

Buddy Emmons:

It’s hard to speculate as to what may have been behind Richard’s structuring of the arrangement; but judging from my experience with him I can only assume he wanted more signature licks and movement in the fills. Richard went as far as to sit at the piano and play notes for me to listen to that reflected the style he was looking for.

Replacing someone else’s track or being bumped off of a track is not a big deal to me. I’ve been replaced more than once and my solution was to simply pick up pieces of my life and move on. Meanwhile, I suspect that Richard Carpenter was doing his job as a producer by starting with a pedal steel sound in his head and doing what it took to get it on tape.

Richard's decision to have Red Rhodes do the steel guitar lick intro on "Top of the World" adds an interesting story behind the music. It's show's Richard's creativity and brilliance as a producer.

 

[Chris May]

Here is the “Behind the Music” discussion from Saturday afternoon:

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

Here is the “Behind the Music” discussion from Saturday afternoon:

Not for nothing but I love the YouTube card. Very nice work!

Ed

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Here is the “Behind the Music” discussion from Saturday afternoon:

Ohhh Cool!! Another Carpenters hour. Can wait to watch this later.

 

[byline]

Here is the “Behind the Music” discussion from Saturday afternoon:

It's so interesting what Earl says, comparing Richard's arrangements with Peter Knight's. He describes Richard's arrangements as more intimate, and I agree. But Richard's style got "bigger" after Passage, on which Peter did a lot of the orchestral arrangements. I'd never thought of this before, but now I wonder if Richard was influenced by Peter's arranging style?

 

[newvillefan]

Richard's style got "bigger" after Passage, on which Peter did a lot of the orchestral arrangements. I'd never thought of this before, but now I wonder if Richard was influenced by Peter's arranging style?

Bound to be, really. Most artists are influenced by their heroes.

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

I’m only up to 29 mins in but we have a new word.

So many Carpenters album that have been remixed or remastered contains “StarMaker”

 

[Bartog739]

It's so interesting what Earl says, comparing Richard's arrangements with Peter Knight's. He describes Richard's arrangements as more intimate, and I agree. But Richard's style got "bigger" after Passage, on which Peter did a lot of the orchestral arrangements. I'd never thought of this before, but now I wonder if Richard was influenced by Peter's arranging style?

I love it all but for me, less is more when it comes to Richard's arrangements.

 

[byline]

I love it all but for me, less is more when it comes to Richard's arrangements.

I agree. I prefer the more "intimate" arrangements, as Earl described them. They were really special, and such an integral part of the Carpenters' sound.

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Here is the “Behind the Music” discussion from Saturday afternoon:

I thoroughly enjoyed this discussion, thank you so much Chris for allowing us to see and hear this.

I especially enjoyed the video of I Believe You. This whole discussion along with this video really leaves me with a greater appreciation for just how much was involved into making a Carpenters song and album. There is a lot going on behind the scenes apart from Karen’s incredible vocals. Sometimes we listen and if we are not listening for all the orchestration and different instruments they can get overshadowed by us just wanting to hear Karen. It’s amazing they were able to crank out as many songs and albums as they did especially with all the touring.

Gayle mentioned when she hears Karen sing even in a store she has to stop and just listen. I can so identify with this statement. There is something that touches you inside when you hear that singer that has meant something special to you for so many years...even in a place as common as a grocery store. It happens that way for me with Olivia as well, I could hear an Olivia song in a store and I have to stop and just close my eyes and listen, it’s like that voice and “The Heart Knows”

 

[Mike Blakesley]

He simply had no business singing lead when he had Karen Carpenter at his disposal.

You have to remember that the act was called Carpenters. It wasn't "Carpenters featuring Karen Carpenter." Richard considered them a band -- their alternating lead vocals on the first album are proof of that, as if any were needed. He knew after the first couple of hits that Karen was going to be the lead singer, and the biggest draw, but that didn't change the fact that he regarded their act as a group, with himself as an equal partner. Remember, he's the one who found, selected, and oftentimes wrote the songs, not to mention the arranging, producing and vocalizing (background and otherwise). Without him it's very possible Karen may have languished in obscurity. Keep in mind, in the beginning she didn't even consider herself a singer!

Plus, Richard was the producer/arranger, so if he felt that an album needed a different lead vocal now and then, he had that right. Personally I think the albums following Now and Then suffered from a lack of the variety which had been provided by Richard being more out-front vocally.

The fact that you think the balance was more like 85% Karen / 15% Richard may be your opinion, but in his mind (and in reality) it was a 50-50 partnership.

 

[Jack A.]

Really, Karen for the most part just contributed vocals - and Richard did basically everything else (except playing the non-keyboard instruments). However - the sheer weight of that one thing Karen had is what leads me to agree that their partnership was still a 50/50 contribution. While Karen is the sound we all know and love, and is really what made a Carpenters record a Carpenters record, she definitely couldn’t have done it without Richard. And without a voice as magnificent as Karen’s to sing the tunes he produced, Richard likely would never would have gone anywhere either.

 

[David A]

Really, Karen for the most part just contributed vocals - and Richard did basically everything else (except playing the non-keyboard instruments). However - the sheer weight of that one thing Karen had is what leads me to agree that their partnership was still a 50/50 contribution. While Karen is the sound we all know and love, and is really what made a Carpenters record a Carpenters record, she definitely couldn’t have done it without Richard. And without a voice as magnificent as Karen’s to sing the tunes he produced, Richard likely would never would have gone anywhere either.

I'm a bit surprised that anyone would see Carpenters as anything other than a 50/50 contribution. Neither would likely have had success as single artists - at least, not in the smash way Carpenters did. They may have had musical careers (especially Richard - not sure if Karen had the musical passion and ambition that Richard had, it seems at least some of Karen's passion came from making music with her brother), but the magic for big-time success came with both of them together.

IMO, Richard was masterful in framing Karen's one-of-a-kind voice, not sure any other arranger/producer would have been as successful as Richard at creating that magical sonic experience we all love. And, as I have said before, the fact that they were siblings plays into the beautiful harmonies.

 

[Bartog739]

While I agree that K and R were a non pareil musical team and that their extraordinary gifts most certainly complimented each other pretty much perfectly, I think it's clear that her own musical passion and ambition did match Richard's. His clarity for what he wanted to do began at an earlier age but once she discovered the drums she became as unstoppable as he was. Although even now I am re-reading your post and the point of origin for her musical interests was probably Richard in the first place as she idolized him so we are probably not in disagreement after all.

 

[adamj95]

At about the 2:17 mark in this video tour of Richard's memorabilia room, there's a poster of what appears to be album covers. I can recognize all but the last one on the bottom right? Can anyone make out what that album is?

 

[byline]

At about the 2:17 mark in this video tour of Richard's memorabilia room, there's a poster of what appears to be album covers. I can recognize all but the last one on the bottom right? Can anyone make out what that album is?

I can't identify that last item ... but what an incredible memorabilia room Richard has created and maintained! Chris May has described what a marvel it is, but seeing it in this video takes it to a whole different level. Amazing!

 

[byline]

At about the 2:17 mark in this video tour of Richard's memorabilia room, there's a poster of what appears to be album covers. I can recognize all but the last one on the bottom right? Can anyone make out what that album is?

I wonder if it's an engraved gold plaque similar to this one, seen at the one-minute mark? Though the square in your screenshot looks more tan than gold.