Karen Carpenter Solo Sessions - Continued

[Murray]

Since this subject is ALWAYS and ONLY about Karen's solo album being released "on time" back in 1980, you have to remember how extremely 'cold' Karen and Carpenters were in the eyes of the public. They were yesterday's news and looked upon as some relic joke of the past. No radio station was touching them - and I'm speaking of the US here. Even their golden hits from the early 70s were omitted from radio playlists. And lets not forget the power that radio had in that time. MTV wasn't around yet. Heck, home VCRs were still a new thing. So if you wanted a hit record, radio was still king.

This whole time was a fork in the road. Release Karen's album and there are two ways it can go. It's either a hit or a flop. The experts, knowing the lay of the land, the status of Carpenters as an act, didn't hear anything that said "MONSTER HIT". The other fork was to shelve this and try to re-establish Carpenters as a valued brand. I think we can all see that this was a damned if you do and damned if you don't scenario.

Richard obviously heard some "songs" he liked, not necessarily the recordings. And "Make Believe..." was reworked, and the other songs were remixed for an anniversary album (LOVELINES) when little else was left.

And finally in 1996, out came the whole album - and it, to date, still has gone nowhere.

A&M was based in the US, but had a global presence, with global affiliates. Did they even consider releasing the album in territories where the Carpenters weren't irrelevant in 1980 - namely the UK and Japan? If not, then why not?

As to your last remark, with all due respect Harry, would anyone have expected a different outcome? The musical landscape had changed a lot in those 16 years. I'd bet that if a monster album like "Thriller" had instead been withheld for 16 years, even it would have been met with a relatively tepid response.

 

[byline]

What about that "flop" causing unfeeling entertainment types to make fun of Karen "goody two shoes" doing disco? Think parodies on Saturday Night Live, which was MUCH bigger then as an influence.

This is what I feared. I remember so well how caustic humor had become right around this time. Comedians and talk show hosts were suddenly not the least bit shy about not just critiquing celebrities and popular entertainers, but practically eviscerating them. And they seemed to take great delight in doing so.

When I used to bring this up with fellow fans online, some of them would reply, "Oh, Karen could have taken it. After all, she was used to all the criticisms directed at the Carpenters." And maybe they were right. But I didn't feel so confident about it, especially thinking about the direction comedy took. It was often just plain ugly.

And for Karen, this would not have been a shared responsibility, as it was with Richard and the Carpenters. Karen's solo album was her baby. So I don't think it goes in a straight line that Karen's solo album is released, and disaster is averted. We'll never know, of course. But I try to avoid making that easy assumption.

 

[Mark-T]

I'm writing up the revisited Christmas Portrait, been working on it awhile. BUT I've been working one the revisited KC solo album for over 1.5 years, gaining everything I can read or get my hands on. I can't wait to share it.

There are aspects in my thinking that are like nothing I've read yet on any of these.KC solo albums threads.

They might be too controversial here, so I'm saying them for February 4, 2025 post.

 

[JohnFB]

but not four GREAT songs. None of them would have cut through the noise of 1980 and particularly because no radio station would have touched them.

You're more than likely correct - but at this point she had millions of fans worldwide waiting for something new from her - even without radio word would have spread rapidly. A&M owed her this, she deserved this, she had earned this...maybe the greatest singer in Pop/Rock history records a new record and you don't put it out? What's so seriously wrong with this picture?

 

[Harry]

A&M was based in the US, but had a global presence, with global affiliates. Did they even consider releasing the album in territories where the Carpenters weren't irrelevant in 1980 - namely the UK and Japan? If not, then why not?

I have no way of knowing any thought processes that were happening with regard to international releases back then, so I really can't answer your very good question..

As to your last remark, with all due respect Harry, would anyone have expected a different outcome? The musical landscape had changed a lot in those 16 years. I'd bet that if a monster album like "Thriller" had instead been withheld for 16 years, even it would have been met with a relatively tepid response.

Well, one of those "four songs", ("Make Believe..."), was re-imagined by Richard, first for MADE IN AMERICA and held back until VOICE OF THE HEART, the first posthumous album. Now you can criticize Richard all you want for slathering syrup all over the song, but his vision is not exactly hideous. It managed to get into the A/C chart, though missed the Hot 100 by just bubbling under. It did well in Canada on A/C and managed some action in Australia and Ireland. It didn't do to well in the UK. This was right after Karen had died, and one of the things about the music business is that when an artist dies, their next record usually gets a bump. I don't know if the fact that some US radio stations actually played "Make Believe..." was due to that factor or not.

It was only six or seven years later that LOVELINES placed a bunch of Karen's solo tracks out into public. LOVELINES was an anniversary album release and has been embraced by fans as a really good one, although it certainly didn't set any charts on fire. None of the "four good songs" that got released on singles went anywhere, and the album as a whole only managed #73 in the UK, hardly a hit.

Meanwhile Richard's album TIME had failed, and Carpenters music, now firmly in the past, got recirculated many times on compilations and box sets around the world.

The hard lesson here is that things happened the way they did and no amount of Monday Morning Quarterbacking is going to change anything. It's nice to think that in some other reality, Karen's album was a big hit, she got her act together, and is still with it - but that's all just fantasy. I've always been grounded in reality.

 

[newvillefan]

Those "four good songs" are out there. Heard any of them on radio, TV, in movies? Commercials?

Wasnt 'Lovelines' used as the theme tune to The Love Boat?

It's nice to think that in some other reality, Karen's album was a big hit, she got her act together, and is still with it - but that's all just fantasy. I've always been grounded in reality.

Fantasy is reality's childhood

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Wasnt 'Lovelines' used as the theme tune to The Love Boat?



Fantasy is reality's childhood

Look To Your Dreams, one of my favorites from VOTH.

I actually remember hearing Make Believe It’s Your First Time on the radio. It always came with that feeling that I’d never hear her on the radio again.

 

[newvillefan]

I actually remember hearing Make Believe It’s Your First Time on the radio.

In recent years I've actually heard it on UK radio a couple of times.

 

[Harry]

In recent years I've actually heard it on UK radio a couple of times.

The UK and their music is a totally different world.

 

[Harry]

At this point, I think Carpenters are pretty much lumped into a Christmas music pigeon hole. Their regular songs, in the US, get about as much attention as Bing Crosby and Perry Como's non-Christmas hits.

 

[Carl]

All these great discussions about the solo album has made me want to re listen with a good set of headphones. One of my plans for the week!

 

[Harry]

All these great discussions about the solo album has made me want to re listen with a good set of headphones. One of my plans for the week!

It's a neat experience with good headphones.

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

At this point, I think Carpenters are pretty much lumped into a Christmas music pigeon hole. Their regular songs, in the US, get about as much attention as Bing Crosby and Perry Como's non-Christmas hits.

Which is why I think we are in for a Christmas treat with the anticipation of Christmas Portrait (this fall) Redux w bonus DVD of Christmas videos.

…Chris M. feel free to like this to confirm….

 

[JohnFB]

Some of this might be new to some of you...

In the beginning of Chapter 15 of LEAD SISTER...Lucy O'Brien writes:

By the time sessions for Karen's solo album finished in early 1980the mood was jubilant. The album had been scheduled for release by A&M, and everyone involved was proud of the project. [This concurs with session player quotes itemized in my posts somewhere above]. Phil Ramone invited Russell Javors along to the listening party at A&R studios, where the album was played to Derek Green [A&M Exec.]...

Ramone and Karen eagerly played the album, but even though Ramone claimed later that the New York playback elicited a positive reaction with Champagne corks popping, Javors remembers it differently, picking up on the underlying tension in the room:

"Phil was excited to get the reaction, as was Karen, but it was like an oil painting in there. It was brutal. All I know is that it was very tense. [Derek Green] was sitting there stoney-faced, not responding...My feeling was it was already dead, the decision was already made."

Phil & Karen fly to L.A., play it for Richard, Herb and Jerry.

The response was even worse. Track after track was met with indifference, and at the end of the playback Moss asserted that the album didn't have a hit song. Karen offered to record some new tracks, but the A&M team weren't keen to put any more time or money in the project...even though the A&M sales team were poised, artwork had been prepared, beautiful photographs done, a catalog number had been assigned, and Karen had invested $400,000 of her own money into the sessions, A&M decided to cancel the album.

Later Green told the writer Ray Coleman:

"We knew we had a dog from a commercial standpoint...to everyone's credit the record was stopped."

 Karen was deeply hurt at this complete rejection. She had made a female soul album...Listening to the record over 40 years later what comes through is Karen's own fresh aesthetic...her approach is intimate, light and upbeat, a conscience departure from the low, lush overload of songs like "Solitaire" and "This Masquerade"...this is an album of nimble, sophisticated soul, classy and smart...

 

[1979lee]

Me too.
It was raining buckets but I would gave rowed a boat to get it on release day.

it was a sunny california day for me. oh yes,hell or highwater i was getting kc's cd that day!

 

[Harry]

Me too.
It was raining buckets but I would gave rowed a boat to get it on release day.

I can attest to the fact that it was raining all day in Philadelphia that day.

 

[Song4uman]

This is my favorite

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Didn’t the demo unfinished tracks get leaked out in 1995? Before the album came out to the public? I wonder if this played a key role in Phil and Richard agreeing to finally put it out on CD.

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

This is my favorite

Mine too.

Unfortunately this photo has been photoshopped or adjusted somewhat. The original can be found inside the DVD Close To You Remembering the Carpenters.

 

[kprather]

This is what I feared. I remember so well how caustic humor had become right around this time. Comedians and talk show hosts were suddenly not the least bit shy about not just critiquing celebrities and popular entertainers, but practically eviscerating them. And they seemed to take great delight in doing so.

When I used to bring this up with fellow fans online, some of them would reply, "Oh, Karen could have taken it. After all, she was used to all the criticisms directed at the Carpenters." And maybe they were right. But I didn't feel so confident about it, especially thinking about the direction comedy took. It was often just plain ugly.

That's where I stand. If the solo album flops, the critics and talking heads give Karen a worse flogging than ever before, and at that point in Karen's life, she's probably considerably less resilient against it. It's entirely possible we lose her sooner in that timeline.

 

[newvillefan]

Didn’t the demo unfinished tracks get leaked out in 1995? Before the album came out to the public? I wonder if this played a key role in Phil and Richard agreeing to finally put it out on CD.

I remember hearing the outtakes (along with the official album tracks) on a bootleg cassette sent to me in late 1995, a full year before it was finally released properly.

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

I remember hearing the outtakes (along with the official album tracks) on a bootleg cassette sent to me in late 1995, a full year before it was finally released properly.

I bet this became a pivotal reason why the album was finally released, maybe more so than giving the fans what they wanted. Of course I have no idea really.

I wonder if the person at A&M got in trouble for this and what was this person’s reason for doing it? Was it to get the album released or they thought it would never so why not? It wasn’t right what they did and should not have been released like that but I’m still glad to have heard them.

 

[Bartog739]

I'm writing up the revisited Christmas Portrait, been working on it awhile. BUT I've been working one the revisited KC solo album for over 1.5 years, gaining everything I can read or get my hands on. I can't wait to share it.

There are aspects in my thinking that are like nothing I've read yet on any of these.KC solo albums threads.

They might be too controversial here, so I'm saying them for February 4, 2025 post.

I'll really be looking forward to that. Love your site

 

[Song4uman]

This is my favorite

This is one I would love to see cleaned up Ai or otherwise

 

[Murray]

Which is why I think we are in for a Christmas treat with the anticipation of Christmas Portrait (this fall) Redux w bonus DVD of Christmas videos.

…Chris M. feel free to like this to confirm….

"Until I hold the jewel case in my hand, and put my finger into the hole in the CD, I will not believe." - Doubting Murray