Karen Carpenter Solo Sessions - Continued

[newvillefan]

He had enough sense to call that quits, but ended up recording the #1 slow-burn "Rise".

The first time I heard that it stopped me in my tracks. Stunning song and performance by Herb. It's now on my playlist when I'm away on holiday in the sun. It's the perfect tune to have on your headphones when you're sitting by the pool with an ice cold beer

 

[Harry]

I'm with Rick - I'm not sure that "Physical" really fits the disco label. I'd call it an up-tempo dance track. There's a fine line of difference there.

And though I agree that XANADU isn't exactly CITIZEN KANE, it's still a fun movie with an outstanding soundtrack.

And like Rick, Karen's album is --- Karen. As a fan, how could it be bad? But it wasn't the right set of songs for her, and I DO blame Phil Ramone.

 

[David A]

I'm with Rick - I'm not sure that "Physical" really fits the disco label. I'd call it an up-tempo dance track. There's a fine line of difference there.

And though I agree that XANADU isn't exactly CITIZEN KANE, it's still a fun movie with an outstanding soundtrack.

And like Rick, Karen's album is --- Karen. As a fan, how could it be bad? But it wasn't the right set of songs for her, and I DO blame Phil Ramone.

Seem to be agreeing with you a lot lately, @Harry Disco has a distinctive beat - can't miss it. Physical doesn't have it, it's more of an upbeat sexy pop song.

It's hard not to at least include Phil in contributing to the album's ultimate lack of good choices/direction/focus. I'm confident Karen relied on his assessments to a large degree given his popularity and success at that time as a producer.

 

[Bartog739]

I have a very honest question. Except for "My Body Keeps Changing My Mind," what other songs are to be considered disco on Karen's album? "Lovelines," Remember When Lovin Took All Night" seem no more disco to me than the above mentioned "Physical" and "Xanadu." "If We Try" and "If I Had You" and others would just be considered "pop," right?

 

[Bartog739]

I know there's plenty of overlap in such descriptions....

 

[Chris]

I have a very honest question. Except for "My Body Keeps Changing My Mind," what other songs are to be considered disco on Karen's album? "Lovelines", "Remember when Lovin Took All Night" seem no more disco to me than the above mentioned "Physical" and "Xanadu." "If We Try" and "If I Had You" and others would just be considered "pop," right?

Besides "My Body Keeps Changing My Mind", I think the only other song that would be considered disco is "Lovelines". Speaking of "My Body Keeps Changing.." it's a fun kind of song and I like parts of it, but I sure wish she'd chosen a better one. I try to like it more than I do through the years, but it's never been a favorite. Karen was right in that there were so many disco songs that could be considered 'beautiful', particularly some of the Bee Gees and others. I just wonder why Karen had to choose one of the lesser quality ones out there with "My Body..". Just my opinion, of course.

 

[Bartog739]

I'm not a disco listener at all but I like listening to the song because I just get a thrill at how much fun she's having. It just really comes across for me. She sounds free somehow, whether it's just my imagination or not, and I'd rather my imagination go there to the positive when thinking about her than to other places for obvious reasons...

 

[Bartog739]

I bring up the question also because the fact that disco was considered dead or dying by 1980 always seems to frame the solo album issue when the album wasn't disco as a whole or even as a majority.

 

[byline]

True, but because of the focus so many seemed to have on tearing down anything deemed un-hip, I don't think that would have mattered. People cherry-picked in all sorts of ways to find their "gotcha" jabs, and I just have a feeling the disco-influenced songs would have been an easy target. That whole "Don't bother me with the facts" attitude.

 

[newvillefan]

Except for "My Body Keeps Changing My Mind," what other songs are to be considered disco on Karen's album? "Lovelines," Remember When Lovin Took All Night" seem no more disco to me than the above mentioned "Physical" and "Xanadu." "If We Try" and "If I Had You" and others would just be considered "pop," right?

'Lovelines' is borderline disco but 'Remember When Lovin' Took All Night' is not a disco track at all - it's more like a soul/pop crossover.

Discounting 'Lovelines' and 'My Body Keeps Changing My Mind', there isn't a single other disco song on the album. So I'm not sure where the disco label ever came from. The album is nothing of the sort. If Karen was guilty of 'going disco' despite Richard's request, it's one one or two songs out of eleven. Hardly a crime.

 

[GDBY2LV]

Disco never died, especially in England, and other parts of Europe. It faded from its mass popularity it the United States, because of the massive backlash from rock radio, and live bands losing massive business, being replaced by anyone with a portable dj rig. I don’t blame the musicians at all. It’s like they were ambushed, and in many cases replaced by recorded music with a driving party beat. There are still many songs being released today with a disco beat behind them. You just have to think about it. The biggest club song from the 80’s, Blue Monday by New Order, is totally disco, new wave, whatever, and still gets played daily on many stations. Think about what you hear at parties, or wedding receptions that get everyone on the dance floor. Still fun for the most part.

 

[Harry]

Full albums were often labeled as full-on disco even when there was only a track or two that were. Another A&M example is Lani Hall's DOUBLE OR NOTHING album. Most have labeled it as Lani's failed 1978 attempt at disco. The title track is disco for sure:

 

[Harry]

But on the same album, there's this lovely track called "To The Morning" written by Dan Fogelberg.

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Then we have Jimmy Mack, where or where does this fit in? Why on earth was she recording a demo like this?

I would love for Midnight and Something’s Missing to be finished and mastered by Richard as a bonus track…sometime before I die. Lol

 

[Bartog739]

Then we have Jimmy Mack, where or where does this fit in? Why on earth was she recording a demo like this?

I would love for Midnight and Something’s Missing to be finished and mastered by Richard as a bonus track…sometime before I die. Lol

I think she just wanted to include an oldie just for the sake of doing it because she loved them so much. On this one I do think she's singing a bit too high, still don't skip it though.

I, too, would love for Midnight and Something's Missing to be finished but like you I know it won't happen. I posted this question earlier, and if nobody knows, no problem, but Richard had said - even on the Mook Notes I read in one of the threads, that Something's Missing he did want to finish - I think he said "we'll probably finish it and put it out one day." but then couldn't get the clearance for it. I guess this would be a "Calling Chris May" moment.

 

[newvillefan]

Then we have Jimmy Mack, where or where does this fit in? Why on earth was she recording a demo like this?

I'd bet you a pound to a penny this was Karen's idea - I have a feeling part of her was still stuck in the old mould. Surprised Phil entertained the idea of even laying down a basic track for this. It's awful and doesn't suit her at all.

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

I mean when you think about it…9 unreleased demos she recorded during her solo album and not one is hit material. The choice of songs and writers are a bit weak. I just think of all the songs that were made for her to sing or that she could have recorded and we get this? What happen?

 

[newvillefan]

Something's Missing he did want to finish - I think he said "we'll probably finish it and put it out one day." but then couldn't get the clearance for it.

Where did the story about not getting clearance come from? I've not heard that until recently. And why couldn't he get clearance if the songs belong to A&M and he is the executor of their musical estate?

I just think of all the songs that were made for her to sing or that she could have recorded and we get this? What happen?

A large part of this is down to Karen. They auditioned hundreds of songs on the way to and from the studio and she rated them A, B or C (depending on suitability). This is where Phil let her down majorly. He should have taken a much greater hand in quality control when it came to potential material.

 

[Bartog739]

I mean when you think about it…9 unreleased demos she recorded during her solo album and not one is hit material. The choice of songs and writers are a bit weak. I just think of all the songs that were made for her to sing or that she could have recorded and we get this? What happen?

I don't know...I think Something's Missing and maybe even Love Makin' Love To You may have had a chance. The last one would be more risky, thus it remained in the unreleased pile even by Karen and Phil, but you never know...the music world is full of surprises. Carpenters themselves were quite a risk and also quite a surprise although I'm certainly not elevating these two songs to stand with their early masterpieces.

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

Then we have Jimmy Mack, where or where does this fit in? Why on earth was she recording a demo like this?

I would love for Midnight and Something’s Missing to be finished and mastered by Richard as a bonus track…sometime before I die. Lol

Richard was not involved in the least bit in the aesthetic of the solo album so I don't believe he should be touching up any of her solo tracks. Neither Phil nor she are around to approve anything. The only one fit to mess with her solo tracks was Phil. As for "Jimmy Mack," it likely just a little bit of fun. No, it doesn't suit her but neither did "Still in Love with You" and that made the record. Karen was afforded the opportunity (because of her own money) to go into the studio and have some fun...and she did. I'm glad she did too. I just wish we could have been in on it when she wanted us to be.

Edit in to say that I recently heard the remix of "Lovelines" again and I'm not a fan. Richard had this thing for reverb and there's just too much of it on his remix. Ditto on "My Body Keeps Changing My Mind." I love the remix of "If I Had You" and don't listen to the album version at all. Still, that's just a remix. He didn't flesh out a production. The one thing he did change (taking Louis off and putting Joe on) is not a decision I love. Fleshing out a whole Karen production would have been a bridge too far IMHO.

Ed

 

[Bartog739]

Where did the story about not getting clearance come from? I've not heard that until recently. And why couldn't he get clearance if the songs belong to A&M and he is the executor of their musical estate?



A large part of this is down to Karen. They auditioned hundreds of songs on the way to and from the studio and she rated them A, B or C (depending on suitability). This is where Phil let her down majorly. He should have taken a much greater hand in quality control when it came to potential material.

I'll try to find the source on that...

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

I mean when you think about it…9 unreleased demos she recorded during her solo album and not one is hit material. The choice of songs and writers are a bit weak. I just think of all the songs that were made for her to sing or that she could have recorded and we get this? What happen?

I feel like I'm picking on you...LOL! I promise I'm not. We got what Karen wanted us to get. I disagree that Rod Temperton is a weak choice...not by any means. He was definitely on the "come up" and had already had big hits with Heatwave (as a writer and an arranger). Billy Joel was white hot and his band were too. Bob James was an interesting commercial choice but he wasn't bombing with his albums either. Rob Mounsey wasn't what he'd become but he was well on his way behind the scenes. I think all the personnel choices were excellent. Those choices didn't always yield amazing songs (the Javors things chiefly among them) but I can't argue with who Phil and Karen chose to work with.

Ed

 

[Harry]

It's often helpful to listen to Richard Bettis' interview with Chris May. Listen starting at around 28 minutes in:

 

[byline]

But on the same album, there's this lovely track called "To The Morning" written by Dan Fogelberg.

I adore Dan Fogelberg's version of his song. And I take your point about how albums were lumped together as disco even though there might have been only a few songs that were truly disco. This one certainly wasn't!

 

[David A]

Disco never died, especially in England, and other parts of Europe. It faded from its mass popularity it the United States, because of the massive backlash from rock radio, and live bands losing massive business, being replaced by anyone with a portable dj rig. I don’t blame the musicians at all. It’s like they were ambushed, and in many cases replaced by recorded music with a driving party beat. There are still many songs being released today with a disco beat behind them. You just have to think about it. The biggest club song from the 80’s, Blue Monday by New Order, is totally disco, new wave, whatever, and still gets played daily on many stations. Think about what you hear at parties, or wedding receptions that get everyone on the dance floor. Still fun for the most part.

True, and the remaining guy from Chic (Nile Rogers, I think) is still active with Chic's "disco" signature guitar riff and bass line, as recently as with the big hit by Daft Punk ("Get Lucky") and Duran Duran's recent (2023?) release. (Sorry, multi-tasking here and little time to research specific dates, etc.)

But what I would call classic disco was fading fast by 1980 in the U.S. market...