Karen Carpenter Solo Sessions - Continued

[Vinylalbumcovers]

I get that John has an opinion but this was about Karen. She did what she wanted. He seems to opine that she was led around by Phil and that she was inexperienced. John said "she knew she hadn't made a record that was good enough." She told Phil that she felt it was a great record so there goes that theory. I also disagree that Phil was a bad choice and that the record was bad. Could it have been better? Yeah, IMHO. Just like he has an opinion, we all have our respective opinions too. That's what he offered up here...and he's more than entitled to do so...just like we are.

Ed

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

When ever I hear Jimmy Mack (which isn’t often) it reminds me of Richard outside A & M Records being interviewed with Karen and a Japanese interviewer asking about the tracks from MIA. Richard says and 1 oldie.

Of all the oldies Karen could have chosen to sing, why oh why JM? lol

She may have had some great writers but why didn’t it reflect this by producing some major hits, singles that A&M couldn’t say no to?

 

[newvillefan]

When ever I hear Jimmy Mack (which isn’t often) it reminds me of Richard outside A & M Records being interviewed with Karen and a Japanese interviewer asking about the tracks from MIA. Richard says and 1 oldie.

He was referring to 'Beechwood 4-5789'

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

.

He was referring to 'Beechwood 4-5789'

Right I was trying to correlate that to Karen probably saying oh I need to do an oldie as a demo on my solo album . They think alike. Lol

 

[GDBY2LV]

People like Rick Dees, and junk like the Ethel Merman disco album. etc. really screwed up the format, that’s for sure. There was so much coming out that was pure manufactured junk by 1979-80, that it just got tossed to the side. Never listened to.
Maybe that’s where UMe got their recycled vinyl from, for future box sets.

 

[Bartog739]

I get that John has an opinion but this was about Karen. She did what she wanted. He seems to opine that she was led around by Phil and that she was inexperienced. John said "she knew she hadn't made a record that was good enough." She told Phil that she felt it was a great record so there goes that theory. I also disagree that Phil was a bad choice and that the record was bad. Could it have been better? Yeah, IMHO. Just like he has an opinion, we all have our respective opinions too. That's what he offered up here...and he's more than entitled to do so...just like we are.

Ed

Remember Quincy Jones really liked the album, wanted to do a remix on it, and I think his industry professional opinion carries plenty of weight. I love the works of John Bettis, I love his laugh, but I do disagree with him on the solo album. It's fair to say public reactions would have been mixed then in '80 as they were in '96 as they are now.

 

[newvillefan]

Remember Quincy Jones really liked the album, wanted to do a remix on it, and I think his industry professional opinion carries plenty of weight.

Strange that there's never been any official comment from Quincy Jones on the album. Given that he produced the best selling album of all time just two years later, I think it's fair to say he knew a good album when he heard it.

 

[Bartog739]

I'll try to find the source on that...

mr J. said:
Richard evidently wanted to finish "Something's Missing" for a compilation release in the mid/late 90's-but somehow wasn't able to get clearance from A&M.

I heard it from Mr. J. on the Karen Carpenter Official Review thread page 30. He didn’t mention his source. It always puzzled me.

 

[Bartog739]

I've done alot of searching for anything more on Quincy Jones' involvement but haven't been able to find anything unfortunately.

 

[newvillefan]

mr J. said:
Richard evidently wanted to finish "Something's Missing" for a compilation release in the mid/late 90's-but somehow wasn't able to get clearance from A&M.

I heard it from Mr. J. on the Karen Carpenter Official Review thread page 30. He didn’t mention his source. It always puzzled me.

So basically just an unsubstantiated rumour. Thanks for the follow up though

 

[David A]

I get that John has an opinion but this was about Karen. She did what she wanted. He seems to opine that she was led around by Phil and that she was inexperienced. John said "she knew she hadn't made a record that was good enough." She told Phil that she felt it was a great record so there goes that theory. I also disagree that Phil was a bad choice and that the record was bad. Could it have been better? Yeah, IMHO. Just like he has an opinion, we all have our respective opinions too. That's what he offered up here...and he's more than entitled to do so...just like we are.

Ed

I think where Phil deserves some responsibility for the album's weaknesses is that, as producer, it's his job to help keep the artist "on track" (no pun intended).

There are countless stories of music artists who had to be "reigned in" or otherwise advised, so they didn't go completely off the rails and produce an album with little commercial appeal or be so all over the map stylistically that it was just a mess.

*sigh*...to have been a fly on the wall back then.

 

[Bartog739]

So basically just an unsubstantiated rumour. Thanks for the follow up though

Yep, looks like it. Definitely trying my best! Thanks for the encouragement!

 

[Bartog739]

I think where Phil deserves some responsibility for the album's weaknesses is that, as producer, it's his job to help keep the artist "on track" (no pun intended).

There are countless stories of music artists who had to be "reigned in" or otherwise advised, so they didn't go completely off the rails and produce an album with little commercial appeal or be so all over the map stylistically that it was just a mess.

*sigh*...to have been a fly on the wall back then.

I understand how and why some of us feel the solo album was "off track" or "ill-suited" but it was Karen's and Phil's stated aim to try different things. All due respect to everyone but I think they achieved that. I think the term "varied" is more appropriate. They weren't shooting for an overall theme.

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

mr J. said:
Richard evidently wanted to finish "Something's Missing" for a compilation release in the mid/late 90's-but somehow wasn't able to get clearance from A&M.

I heard it from Mr. J. on the Karen Carpenter Official Review thread page 30. He didn’t mention his source. It always puzzled me.

Nice job finding that post. I actually remember reading that now. So well never hear it finished.

 

[Bartog739]

Nice job finding that post. I actually remember reading that now. So well never hear it finished.

Thanks! and yeah, guess not It would have been great.

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

I remember another confirmation from the Mook Book. There was an English translation that Yuka provided and here is part of it

Yuka basically tells Richard, I have a list of unreleased songs. Richard says uh oh.
Richard is nice enough to reply to her long list of songs. Here Richard doesn’t mention the song title from her solo album but we can probably take a guess which ones he’s referring to? I didn’t realize he said, “If they allow me” So maybe A&M wouldn’t allow Richard to do this? Confirmation from Mr. J.??


YO:!
Does this mean you have enough material to compile a CD?!
RC:!
It would have to be, if we do it at all, cause I said I can think... what!
are there four things with And When He Smiles, and then there are 10 bonus! tracks from the Phil Ramone project but he's not wild about all of them, nor! am I, nor was Karen. That's why they're outtakes! But there are several in! there so if you use several of those, and there's one that's quite! Carpenter-esque that I already... that I would love to do the!
arrangement on it.
All it is now is a track and a work lead, but it's really!
Carpenter-esque. That may be one reason that it's not on the album, cause! it's too Carpenter-esque. I want to do the chart on it, if they'll let me,!
and I think it would be kind of nice to... for Karen... Karen, you know,!
would love to have me do the chart on it, and it is right out of our song!
book, if you will, and there are probably four things there, five maybe, no! four, another four... but then the rest would have to be interviews and...!
it can't be a whole album... there's not enough to make a whole CD of music! that's worthy of release. I'm not about to put out just anything and neither!
is Phil, just because... nor, I think... granted I suppose some people, if!
it's Karen singing it.... Well, there's Why Don't They Understand, is that!
on there? That has an actual whole lead and it's a tune that Karen and I! always loved from the time of it's release. It was originally produced and! arranged by Don Costa, sung by George Hamilton IV... but somehow, even! though Karen sings it better than George Hamilton IV, it just didn't... we! never finished it, mentally, but we looked at ourselves and said we liked!
the original one more. So, it never went anywhere. Pretty song. Is that on!
YO:!
Yes.!
RC:!
Well, it's a comprehensive list, they did their jobs well.!

 

[David A]

I understand how and why some of us feel the solo album was "off track" or "ill-suited" but it was Karen's and Phil's stated aim to try different things. All due respect to everyone but I think they achieved that. I think the term "varied" is more appropriate. They weren't shooting for an overall theme.

Totally respect your view, and can understand why someone would reasonably hold that view. I always try to remember to include "imo" or some other such disclaimer, when offering opinion. I have used the terms "lack of focus" or "direction" and stand by that view - the album didn't have to be some sort of "concept album", but - imo - it was ultimately too disparate to hold together well.

I have also stated (in this thread and elsewhere) that regardless, I believe it should have been released, because there _are_ several nice songs on it, and there were plenty of other songs from other artists in the 1979-1980 time-frame that were utter dreck; one of Karen's songs might have found a home in the top 15 (or better).

 

[Bartog739]

Agreed in my humble opinion! I see the point. I guess this explains alot of the re-ordering of the tracks that goes on in the thread. I can see that the album maybe lacks a certain amount of unity....Some things about it are simply hard to understand. On the one hand they were rushed, on the other hand it took too long, and both seems to be true at the same time. I still like the album but does seem to be one of the more fascinating ones out there....I appreciate what you're saying

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Agreed in my humble opinion! I see the point. I guess this explains alot of the re-ordering of the tracks that goes on in the thread. I can see that the album maybe lacks a certain amount of unity....Some things about it are simply hard to understand. On the one hand they were rushed, on the other hand it took too long, and both seems to be true at the same time. I still like the album but does seem to be one of the more fascinating ones out there....I appreciate what you're saying

This and with 418 replies on this thread, this is an important subject for the fans to discuss. We may not understand everything that happened back then, we may not always agree but it’s an important part of both Karen’s career and Carpenters as a whole. For some it provides healing in the tragedy of losing her so soon.

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

I think where Phil deserves some responsibility for the album's weaknesses is that, as producer, it's his job to help keep the artist "on track" (no pun intended).

There are countless stories of music artists who had to be "reigned in" or otherwise advised, so they didn't go completely off the rails and produce an album with little commercial appeal or be so all over the map stylistically that it was just a mess.

*sigh*...to have been a fly on the wall back then.

I just don't think the record goes "off the rails". She tried things...with her money. There are, IMHO, commercial songs on the album. Both Rod tunes are. If you need a third, take "If I Had You" and even "Make Believe...". It's not like there was nothing on there they could have pushed as a single. "Made in America" is full of dreck. Where's the next single beyond "Touch Me..."? Even at that, it didn't do all that well. Number 16 for a comeback single isn't great. Beyond that, that record is a true dud IMHO. We could quite easily ask Richard why he let that one go "off the rails"? MIA is, IMHO, a far weaker record than Karen's solo album.

Ed

 

[JohnFB]

This and with 418 replies on this thread, this is an important subject for the fans to discuss. We may not understand everything that happened back then, we may not always agree but it’s an important part of both Karen’s career and Carpenters as a whole. For some it provides healing in the tragedy of losing her so soon.

Yes, this thread has taken on a "life of it's own" and it's been a highly informative and fascinating ride...

As far as "healing" goes it will never fully happen - the best we can do is listen to her sing with that warm, rich, comforting voice and weep tears of joy and sorrow - at the same time.

 

[Bartog739]

This and with 418 replies on this thread, this is an important subject for the fans to discuss. We may not understand everything that happened back then, we may not always agree but it’s an important part of both Karen’s career and Carpenters as a whole. For some it provides healing in the tragedy of losing her so soon.

I'm glad to know I'm not alone in the needing to heal department.

 

[David A]

I just don't think the record goes "off the rails". She tried things...with her money. [/SNIP]

Ed

To be clear, my "off the rails" comment was meant in a broader context, not specific to Karen's solo album. More specific to the album, I've made my points previously.

 

[Brendon McMahon]

Yes, this thread has taken on a "life of it's own" and it's been a highly informative and fascinating ride...

As far as "healing" goes it will never fully happen - the best we can do is listen to her sing with that warm, rich, comforting voice and weep tears of joy and sorrow - at the same time.

Why was she even recording tracks that had any hint of disco? Shouldn’t Phil have steered her away from those type songs given that this album was not going to be released in 79’. I mean he’s the producer and he should have known better even if she really wanted to record songs with a disco flair. Doesn’t some fault lie on Phil? Shouldn’t Phil have said look now it’s 1980 let’s regroup this so there are no disco type tracks. It’s all too late by then, right.

Was it always the intention to release the album a year after its recording?
That seems odd ... Why would they have not released something off the album as a single early in the piece? Surely that would have been a teaser for what was to come?

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

What does the song I Guess I Just Lost My Head mean? She says they don’t know each other and she’s asking for forgiveness and keeps says she lost her head. What is she talking about? Lol