Top 5 Most Cringe-inducing Carpenters Moments:

Status
Not open for further replies.

Must Hear This Album

Well-Known Member
Okay, so we’re all “super fans,” I know, but I can’t help but think there haven’t been moments in the duo’s career that haven’t been head-scratching, cringe-inducing moments for each of us, right? I know I commit at least 5 such moments for my wife every week! So in the tradition of the recent rock-crit book, “Kill Your Idols,” I offer up my “Top 10 Most Cringe-inducing Carpenters Moments:


5. Space Encounters: As I’ve written elsewhere, I can’t help but think this ill-conceived television special, as well as the related Klaatu cover, was born out of the Star Wars, Close Encounters Of The Third Kind (as opposed to the first and second kinds?) outer space-crazed North American culture in the late 1970’s. That it included two of the cheesiest guest stars of the era and included some horrific, crunchy dancing by big brother, Richard, makes this one of the most cringe-inducing moments of the duo’s career. May the cheese be with you…

4. “Remember When Lovin’ Took All Night?”: Um, no. No, I don’t. This song from Karen’s solo album was wrong on soooo many levels. It’s like accidentally stumbling upon your newly-divorced Aunt’s profile picture on a dating website (not that it’s ever happened to me, per se, but it would be just like that…). It’s a song about crazy “all night” copulation, sang in a perky, soccer mom style in Karen’s unflattering upper register. In a word, “Icky.” In my mind’s eye, Karen is performing this song in the wacky outfit she wore for the “Goofus” television special clip, with the exaggerated, elbowy arm swinging choreography. Not sexy. And despite the “Pepsodent Twins” stereotype, Karen’s vocals could be terribly sexy (e.g., “Superstar,” “(I’m Caught Between) Goodbye And I Love You,” “Baby, It’s You,” etc.).

3. “That’s What I Believe”: Karen didn’t have the only solo lapse(s) of judgment. From Richard’s first solo effort, Time, this cheesy song was, truly, the worst on the album. “All you have to do is dream and never compromise…that’s what I believe.” Thanks for that profound advice, Scott and Richard! Dreaming and never compromising gets one so very far in pretty much everything, right? Sigh… True confessions time: that said, I am Grime’s age, and at that time, and I was over-the-top jealous of his opportunity to work with Richard, not only on this song, but on Carpenter’s production of Grime’s entire debut (and only?) album. It stung my high school, choir kid heart that Carpenter suggested in interviews Grimes has a “promising future” in the business. That should have been me! Ugh! What I wouldn’t have done to trade places with that lucky kid - even on this dumb song.

2. “Please Mr. Postman” Video: Is it just me, or is Karen completely high in this video? That’s right, I said it: high. On marijuana. And don’t be shocked, as the siblings purported their support of the legalization of marijuana in a People Magazine publication from the late 1970’s / early 1980’s. True story. Look it up. Not only did Karen look high, but Richard just looked uncomfortable in this video clip, and the Disney smiles and (again) crunchy elbow choreography by Karen didn’t help the duo’s rock cred all that much.

1. Album Covers: I posit the following album covers did the most damage: Close To You (were they siblings, or a married couple? Weird. And are Karen’s shoes too big? It looks like they are. And how did they get out on those rocks? Especially Karen in the dress? Ill-advised), A Song For You (as others have said, it looks like a Valentine card. Not helpful), A Kind Of Hush (clearly, a lot of ideas were put into the album packaging for this one, but mostly bad ideas, cheesy cover photo and art, and the duo look absolutely depressed on the inside lyrics insert. The clear exception, here, is the inside of the cover cardboard, which was wallpapered with the famous logo – that was pretty amazing), and Made In America (the flowing hair to the back cover was just weird), and while the “Tan Album,” with the graduation photo concept, was a great idea, the inside photo had, essentially, the same problems as CTY, but just different outfits.

Had I been their manager back in the early 1970’s, I would have encouraged the duo to strike a more surreptitious pose with the media, to not grant interviews, to trash a few hotel rooms, stage a few public brawls (I’m only half-kidding…), and to keep an arms-length from media and cameras, in general, much in the same vein as brother/sister duo “The White Stripes.” Their catch phrase could have been, to borrow a phrase from Rolling Stone magazine, “Soft Rocking, Hard Living.” Sweet music, mysterious image. I’m guessing that image-conscious rock journalism of the day would have slurped that up with a curly straw, as the suburban image seemed to be an albatross as it relates to critics. That said, K&R were just being their wonderful selves…
 
I can't say I really disagree with any of your "ick" moments, but I did want to add to your comment #3 regarding Scott Grimes.

3. “That’s What I Believe”: Karen didn’t have the only solo lapse(s) of judgment. From Richard’s first solo effort, Time, this cheesy song was, truly, the worst on the album. “All you have to do is dream and never compromise…that’s what I believe.” Thanks for that profound advice, Scott and Richard! Dreaming and never compromising gets one so very far in pretty much everything, right? Sigh… True confessions time: that said, I am Grime’s age, and at that time, and I was over-the-top jealous of his opportunity to work with Richard, not only on this song, but on Carpenter’s production of Grime’s entire debut (and only?) album. It stung my high school, choir kid heart that Carpenter suggested in interviews Grimes has a “promising future” in the business. That should have been me! Ugh! What I wouldn't have done to trade places with that lucky kid - even on this dumb song.

I had similar feelings towards Mr. Grimes - and the jealousy carries even further.

First we meet him on the Richard Carpenter solo album. We get Dionne Warwick, Dusty Springfield, ...and Scott Grimes? What? They couldn't find ANYBODY better than that. Who is this geek anyway?

Then that wasn't bad enough but he got a whole album produced by Richard, with input from Herb Alpert - another idol infected with this Grimey disease. To make it even worse, as I thumbed through a 1989 TV Guide anxiously awaiting the next STAR TREK: THE NEXT GENERATION, who do I see in the guest list? You guessed it: Scott Grimes. So this guy gets to work with Richard Carpenter, Herb Alpert, AND DO A STAR TREK? Ugh. I hate him even more.

Now, picture the day a decade later as the Internet is becoming a valuable research tool and the IMDb is born. I stumble into a page for Scott Grimes and find out that he not only did a Trek, but an '80s TWILIGHT ZONE too (as a kid)! Now he's just sticking it to me.

A few years later, we're watching our weekly dose of E.R. and who ends up a regular? Scott Fricking Grimes. I'd like to think he killed E.R., but he lasted 112 episodes.

And "Golden Boy" won't go away. Just this past year we saw him on a CRIMINAL MINDS. I think he HAS a criminal mind...

Harry
...all in good fun. I don't really hate Scott Grimes, but it's fun to think of him as a pest who won't go away, online...
 
Oh - and one small satisfaction: his scene on STAR TREK: THE NEXT GENERATION ended up on the cutting room floor!

Harry
 
Grimes is/was in HBO's "Band of Brothers."

As for the list, somehow missed the actual airing of Space Encounters; at least, I think so! Is it possible I was so embarrassed by it that it remained buried deep in my brain? I saw the youtube clip awhile back, and I really do not remember seeing it when originally aired. Maybe I was in college at the time - I didn't watch too much tv at school. Anyway, it was quite dreadful.
 
For the record, nothing against Grimes, personally. While I've never seen him act, and he held his own as a teenage singer in the late 1980's, the particular song was just really bad, and I was (and still am, a bit) insanely jealous. *grin

I think for me, Carpenters "jump the shark" the most when they didn't play to their strengths and chased after the trends du jour. While I respect an artist's need to expand, I would have been wholly content had the duo stayed true to their "classic" sound, which for me was anything recorded/released between 1970-1973.

Thanks for replying!
 
[quote="...all in good fun. I don't really hate Scott Grimes, but it's fun to think of him as a pest who won't go away, online...[/quote]

Just saw the first post. Too funny. Thanks for that.
 
In late 1987 (I think it was) I got to see Richard perform live with, I think it was, the Glendale Philharmonic or some such. All was going well until he introduced Scott Grimes to sing, of all songs, MERRY CHRISTMAS DARLING. Talk about cringe, this put it over the top. His voice is SO high all I could do was picture Micheal Jackson covering this song...or the Chipmonks. Ouch. I sank about three feet into my chair. Put Christmas Portrait on your old record player at 78 rpms and you might begin to get a feel of how this went. NOT GOOD.
 
Most uneasy at the intro and chorus of Because We Are in Love (the wedding song). There I said it. Karen's reading of this song written for her by big bro lacks any real conviction. The overabundance of the much overused choir backup is tedious at best. I don't buy this "love song" much less the advice from Mother. Upon 1st listen I guess I expected a We've Only Just Begun or something. Like RC lost his muse. Again Richard's disdain for Karen's upper range on her solo album seems to flourish here and another instance is Look To Your Dreams. This is a lovely tune yet suffers from the aforementioned as well. I suppose when it suited him she could sing pig Latin. Every choir outing makes my skin crawl. Karen being so very gifted vocally is the sole reason I imbibe. The choir sounds like a shortcut. Different cuts on Christmas Portrait I can work with yet at first spin I completely anticipated the wonder of pristine overdubs. We get a drizzle as First Snowfall takes off and Merry Xmas Darling of course. Old Fashioned Christmas finally offered up Santa Claus is Comin' to Town. That being said we find the duos brilliant harmonies are few and far between. But being Xmas music I begrudgingly give it a pass. Karen's vocals are sublime! I wish wish wish that RC would go back to the studio and alter some of the Voice of the Heart trax. No choir on NOW, You're Enough and on and on. Just stark vocals featuring Karen. Naturally Richard's use of ooooh aaaaah's would be welcomed creating the "sound". I like what he did on Your Baby Doesn't Love You Anymore. Just wish he would've continued with the vibes thru-out the album. Then while there he could clean up the other blunders. You might be asking what's up Jeff's a** today? Answer: nothing really. Just hatin' on those elevator people...again and again.
 
hello all. My 5 wince moments tend to read like an execution of a certain TV special. . .but here goes.

1) Jimmy and Kristy McNichol FUM FUM F**K. 1978 Xmas Portrait Special

The McNichol murder of this christmas song is horrific. His sister has a certain spark that was put to decent use in later years (Sam Fuller's White Dog. . .Empty Nest) but my god this sequence is hard to watch.

2) Big Brothers/Kid Sisters 1978 Xmas Portrait Special

WTF people. A few months before they shot this video K and R were slating the image they had: "I'm sick and tired of this whole image thing" said Karen. Then why, dear God, agree to this. They'd been signed almost a decade by this point. . .MAJOR PLAYERS. My only explanation is that by October of '78 Richard was on planet Quaalude, and Karen, God love her, thought it would be a "cute number" and was talked into it by the ABC producers.

3)Peter Pitt and Santa Claus is coming to Town

KC : "that spirit hovering over the party is Peter Pitt". I'm anti-guns, but every time I see that little imp on Karen and Richard's roof I feel I'm within my rights to blast him off there. . .he's clearly planning a break-in. And then to make him "mesmerize" an emaciated Karen as she bakes Christmas cookies. . .it's just too much.

4)The Hustle with Suzanne Sommers and RC

"Here's a teaser for your feet. . . an old square dance with a disco beat". No. Just no. Die-hard hater of disco Richard woos space girl Suzanne as a robot made from boxes tells our gang to "hustle". While this pap was being recorded they were making one of the great Christmas Albums. . .weird.

5)I'm Still in Love With You 1979 Solo Session

I've read that the late, great Phil Ramone encouraged Karen to let go of her "affected" Carpenters voice for his songs with her. Well if her reading of this slight song is anywhere near sincere you could have fooled me. To my ear, her most contrived and phony vocal ever. Though bashed by many, hearing THE VOICE back in action in MIA was a delight.

Well, there we go. I suppose it's no surprise that my cringe moments happen within the 12 month period that Richard was at his lowest, and that Karen was really beginning to fall apart. I love their MMM special from early '80, MIA, and the '82 songs. . .just a shame Karen didn't take her year therapy in '79 instead of '82. . . then again, maybe she did with the solo album (which does have some gems.) :)





 
Opposite of "the chill factor", I take it!

Here's to:

1. The "wuh, wuh, wuh-wuh-wuh-wuh, wuh, whu" after the chorus of "here to remind you, here to remind you, here to remind you...--" on 'I'll Never Fall In Love Again'... (in 'Bacharach-David medley' & without) --Very skin tingly creepy!

2. The sax solo on 'Rainy Days & Mondays'--an only turn-off on an otherwise good song, though one I've related to on a not-so-flattering basis, so it's all good!

3. 'Goodbye To Love': "No one can predict the wheel of fortune as it falls" --I picture the whole thing coming right off its spindle, landing horizontally on the ground! Even Journey's 'Wheel In The Sky' "keeps on TURNING!"...! Hard to write this part of the song & get the perfect rhyme, if you want something to go w/ "what lies in the future is a mystery to us all" vs. something like: "what lies in the future we somehow have to learn" being too long-winded & likely to detract from the meaning in that song"...

4. 'Jambalaya': Too cutsey, wootsy! It's really not their song... But maybe I am really trying to put down 'Goofus'!

5. 'Intermission': Few artists really have the chutzpah to disclose what goes on between a Side 1 & Side 2 in that gruesome way! (I go between the entire albums & wash my hands meticulously afterwards!) :laugh:

More as it comes, or haven't I said enough?! :wink:



-- Dave
 
Previous posts covered most of my top 5. Only two others come to mind:

1. The Ken and Mitzi stage show, and specifically, "showcasing" Karen's drumming with "Strike Up the Band". Corny, and did little to display her drumming talents.

2. Richard's solos on the tan album. He sounds fine on most other Carpenters LPs, but "Druscilla" and "Saturday" bring out the least appealing qualities in his voice and lyrically are just way too precious for my tastes.

100% in agreement with the earlier comments on Space Encounters and "Because We Are in Love".
 
Every choir outing makes my skin crawl. Karen being so very gifted vocally is the sole reason I imbibe. The choir sounds like a shortcut...I wish wish wish that RC would go back to the studio and alter some of the Voice of the Heart trax. No choir on NOW, You're Enough and on and on. Just stark vocals featuring Karen. Naturally Richard's use of ooooh aaaaah's would be welcomed creating the "sound."

Couldn't agree more on the choral vocals on the later albums. Shortcut.
 
Wow- I'd have to agree with almost everyone's choices. Sad to think such a talented duo could be involved with so many poor choices.
 
I think that these moments are part of what makes (and has always made) some people think that Carpenters music is cheesy. They can't get past those moments and hear that incredible voice and the amazing talents they had. :cry:
 
'Make Me Laugh' from the Dorothy Hamill Special in 1977 comes to mind. Just the polar opposite of what they should have been doing to combat the image situation. The outdoor scenes are great, but the song is so cheesy.

Anything from 'Space Encounters', with the exception of the 'Occupants' and 'Dancing In The Street' segments also get the 'cringe' award. Same thing applies to 'Christmas Portrait' special, with the exception of 'Merry Christmas Darling' and the closing segment with Gene Kelly.

While I do appreciate the effort Carpenters put forth to upgrade their '76 stage show, it really did reek of 'Vegas!' in just about every way. They certainly got an 'A' for effort, but the way it was conceived could have been much more understated and still have been effective. And the focus should have been on Karen's voice primarily....not things like Spike Jones' 'Close to You' with kazoos, etc.

I'm confident Carpenters would be doing something entirely different if they were still around today. We need to keep in mind their last tour was in 1978. A lot has changed since then, and Karen and Richard would undoubtedly have changed with the times.
 
Every group has their cheesy moments, I guess. Some the ones listed above aren't cheesy to my ears (I've always enjoyed "Saturday," for example).

To me the worst moment of their whole career was the DJ-narration segment of "Calling Occupants." It jarringly interrupts the album and destroys the mood that's been created thus far. The "Occupants" song itself is nice, but that whole "Weeeee have been obserrrrrrving yourrrrrr earth" thing is just a cringe- inducer, and when the aliens say ".....baby!" that's just the nadir of their career in my eyes.

"Intermission" is a lovely choral arrangement that has a sense of humor (are there any other of those in pop music history?) and to me it's not cheesy at all. I have included it on severfal "best of Carpenters" compilations I've made over the years.
 
“Remember When Lovin’ Took All Night?”: ... It’s a song about crazy “all night” copulation

As are the majority of pop songs. When you get right down to it. :) Even the phrase "rock and roll" was originally a code name for "the deed" from old blues songs.

You must REALLY hate Sergio Mendes' and Brasil '66's rendition of "Night and Day" where it refers to "this torment won't be through, till you let me spend my life making love to you....night and day, day and night" :D
 
Ok. Looking back with 20/20, I'm sure we can all find a few eye-rollers. But K & R were very much with the times, if not ahead. Even in 1980 when told to stick with the "bread and butter stuff" our duo still inched forward within their own genre. I believe that, given the critical slam on the cutesy cheese that made its way on to the MIA album, they would've gone with a richer, more timeless feel....they both were too "in touch" not to.
 
Actually,"Remember when Lovin' took all night" is one of the better solo tracks,and that's why Richard included it on "Lovelines".It features a very mellow,jazzy arrangement that's more well-suited to Karen's style than most of the other solo tracks-and Karen's vocal is pretty decent,too.

I would use the term "cringe-inducing" to describe "Still In Love With You","All Because Of You","Making Love In The Afternoon",etc.Karen really sounds horrible(and phony) on these tracks-and,as everybody knows,Karen Carpenter and Rock aren't a good mix.

Also,while I agree with some of the above sentiments about "Look To Your Dreams" and "Because We Are In Love" being a bit overblown with the string and choral arrangements,these two tracks,along with "I Need To Be In Love",were Karen's all-time favorite recordings-and Richard wrote them for Karen to her exact specifications.There's nothing "cring-inducing" about "Look To Your Dreams"-it's one of Karen's most exquisite performances, a true Carpenters standard,and an absolute fan favorite.I would have preferred an improvised sax solo in place of the string/ choral section,but nevertheless,it's a great recording.And,for the record,"Look To Your Dreams" was completed in 1978 and Karen approved the finished recording.
 
The Peter Pitt post made my day! That is SO cringe worthy, as with those other TV special when it wasn't Karen and Richard doing what they do best.

But I disagree wholeheartedly with the solo album having cringe worthy moments. I love that album with all of my heart.
 
[quote="Mike Blakesley, post: You must REALLY hate Sergio Mendes' and Brasil '66's rendition of "Night and Day" where it refers to "this torment won't be through, till you let me spend my life making love to you....night and day, day and night" :D[/quote]

For the record, it wasn't the subject nature of that particular song that made me cringe, it was the delivery. Big Sergio Mendes fan, here! Thanks for the replies!
 
If the people posting on this forum are representative of the listening public, it's no wonder Karen once said in an interview, late in their career, that they couldn't figure out what people wanted to hear.
 
You can please all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time, but you cant please ALL of the people ALL of the time!!

Some of the tracks i like more than others, but I wouldn't really say any of them are 'cringe making', i love Carpenters far too much to feel that way. Like a favourite friend or relative, I always allow a few 'not quite wonderful' moments, because 99.9% of the time, they are just sublime.....

Bob
 
Thanks, everyone, for your thoughtful comments. Your "cringe" moments have been fun to read and remind me that, when the duo was very good (which was so much of the time), they were, quite simply, exquisite.

And to those die-hard fans who love EVERYTHING the siblings ever did - you go! I love your unbridled enthusiasm, and to be honest, even the stuff I acknowledge as "cringe-worthy," I secretly love (guilty pleasures abound!). "Calling occupants, of interplanetary craft..." :bowdown2:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom