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The Singles... That never were

Rumbahbah

Well-Known Member
Once again, regardless of whatever Richard Carpenter was going to include on his solo album,
if there was going to be little promotion by him, I fail to see how the album would have charted any better....
---as far as Richard's "Time" is concerned, we read:
People Magazine, October 26th, 1987:
"Record business wisdom would have Carpenter go out on tour to support his new LP,
but he plans to stay home for a while, he says, “because I don’t want to leave my baby yet.”
Source:
Four Years After His Sister Karen's Death, Singer Richard Carpenter Makes His Debut as a Solo Act
The timing of his family commitments certainly wouldn't have helped the album's cause, but I don't know if a tour would have made all that much difference to its sales. Would he have been able to attract much of a crowd without Karen and what format would it have taken, given that several of the songs on Time were sung by other people than him? It's hard to avoid the idea of it leaning very heavily on the Carpenters' back catalogue, as his 1997 shows were to do, rather than showcasing him as a solo artist.
 

arthowson

Active Member
I got it off of ebay a few years ago. It's track listing is

Close To You
Still Crazy After All These Years
Let Me Be The One
We've Only Just Begun
My Body Keeps Changing My Mind
Goodbye To Love
Looking For Love

A&M used a brown background with the writing and Carpenters logo in lime-green. It is an official, pressed CD, not a CD-R, but the brown and lime-green makes it very difficult to read or even photograph. It doesn't show up to well in photo's.
Can you listen to Goodbye to Love from this set? I wonder if it's longer than the others… and additional "I'll say goodbye to love"
 

newvillefan

I Know My First Name Is Stephen
I’m Still Not Over You should have been then lead single from Time right off the bat. Biggest mistake Richard made. Wouldve been an easy top 20 minimum with the right promotion. You hear Richard Carpener is coming out with a new album, and hear someone else singing? Shoudlve been a simple album cut or later single. He released Who Do You love in Japan. Shoulve made that the second single.
Completely agree with both points above. The single with Dusty should never have been released because by that point she had made it clear she wasn't willing to undertake any promotional activity for it. It was a complete waste of time putting it out as his big comeback as a solo artist when it's not even him singing. He would have been better to go with one of the songs with his vocal, especially I'm Still Not Over You. That's one of the highlights of the album for me and the lyrics especially poignant given Karen's passing. I think it would have resonated with people.
 

Harry

Charter A&M Corner Member
Staff member
Moderator
--Rich says "I Just Fall in Love Again" was too long to release for radio. Nonsense, as singles with longer running times scored big as the decade progressed; OR it could have been properly edited.
While checking out the possibility of editing "This Masquerade" down to a radio-friendly single length - (yes, it's possible_ - I thought I'd tackle "I Just Fall In Move Again" too, as it's always reported as being too long for a radio single. WEll, I don't know if I buy the premise totally. Yes, radio liked "get in, get out" records, but they were known to grant exceptions in the case of really superior long songs. In the 60s there was "Hey Jude" and "MacArthur Park", and the 70s were filled with extra-long Elton John and Paul McCartney singles.

Is "I Just Fall In Love Again" by Carpenters in that league? I never thought so. I always thought Karen sounded liked she was at the end of a cold and somewhat nasal sounding on that track.

As for editing, the double key-change presents the biggest obstacle in "I Just Fall In Love Again". The song modulates up a half note for the orchestral swell, then modulates another half note up for the vocal finale. I decided to try a modern technique to accomplish what George Martin did with "Strawberry Fields Forever". That song was famously recorded twice, once kind of simply, and once with added orchestral flourishes. John wanted the two edited together so it started with the simple version and then concluded with the orchestral flourish version. But they were in two different keys and he told George Martin, well, you can fix that, surely. George Martin had to speed up (raise) one part and slow down (lower) another, and it worked. Today you can hear the edit at exactly the one-minute mark.

So, I put "I Just Fall In Love Again" in Audacity and found my desired edit point - the word "I" in "...and oh, I just fall...".
I cut the song at that point in the first time through, and then picked it up at that same point the second time through.
Surprisingly, that got the song down to around the 3:00 mark in length, but we had two parts with an abrupt key change that sounded awful.


Using the George Martin technique, I sped up the first part by a full note, and slowed down the second half by a full note, to account for the two key changes. The results were quite bad. When Karen's voice in the first part is sped up by a full note, her vocal went into chipmunk-sounding territory. The lowered part didn't sound too bad.

So I tried leaving the first part alone and lowering the second part by two full tones. At that point, Karen's latter half sounded whiney and draggy. Can't win - it's just not possible.
 
Thanks for the eye opener on the editing, Harry. I'm convinced and will give up the 40-year "should have been a single" tirade.

Little matter now anyway.

However, I respectfully disagree with your criticism of the track itself. In fact, I feel it's such a major-league player in the Carpenters discography that every time my iPhone shuffle lands on the track ... well ... the title says it all.

But -- hey! -- it's a free country.

At least at this writing.

:)

Mike
 

Harry

Charter A&M Corner Member
Staff member
Moderator
Yeah, many really love that track. I don't hate it, but the nasal-sounding Karen bothers me. I wish they'd waited and re-recorded her lead with another take.
 
I thought you'd get a kick out of "zombie apocalypse" graph, Harry. (Hope I made you laugh.)

:)

As for "IJFILA," I don't hear the nasal. But I proudly hail from Rochester, N.Y., sinus-infection capital of the world. So, I wouldn't.
 

Carpe diem

Well-Known Member
Re: IJFILA: Just makes me crazy that the second-runner-up of all nasaly female vocalists (The queen is Helen Reddy) Anne Murray, was able to "one up" the great Karen Carpenter and make this a huge hit two years after the fact. As has been stated in the threads of this great forum many times, if Karen's performance was not BURIED under a tsunami of oboes, harps, fuzz guitar, OK Chorale(?), etc; it most certainly coulda, shoulda, woulda, been a hit back in 1977. Is it true that they recorded this song in the A&M Studios parking lot?!
 
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GaryAlan

Well-Known Member
I Just Fall In Love Again....
Gee, I remain the dissenter.
Not only do I not hear any 'nasally' vocals,
the arrangement (imho) is fantastic--yes, even bombastic--but, it speaks to me.
Certainly, the song was recorded in an A&M studio, I've read nothing to suggest otherwise.

NB: I love Helen Reddy, I don't hear any 'nasally' vocals there, either.
 

newvillefan

I Know My First Name Is Stephen
Yeah, many really love that track. I don't hate it, but the nasal-sounding Karen bothers me. I wish they'd waited and re-recorded her lead with another take.
Not only does she sound like she had cold while recording it, but she’s drowned out by the overbearing arrangement, especially in the final chorus. To my knowledge the track has never had the remix treatment, so it will be interesting to see what Richard does with the lead vocal for the RPO mix. Look at the difference a remix did for Karen’s lead vocals on Yesterday Once More. On the remixes her voice is fuller, richer-sounding with much more presence.
 
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Chris

Well-Known Member
I agree that Karen sounded like she had a cold on "I Just Fall In Love Again". I always thought so. Even so, I think it was a mistake not to release it as a single. Even with the over production, it's one heck of a recording. While it could have been more intimate as many have said, I can excuse the big arrangement since the lyrics talk about "take me to a star.. heaven is that moment.." etc. The grand production does sound like a trip through the universe in a star filled sky in that sense and is sort of fitting. I love the fuzz guitar solo in it as well. Gorgeous and masterful. Since Richard was worried about over-length, and as Harry said it's not easy to edit, but I feel that it would have been helped a bit by cutting out the opening instrumentation all together and just have it begin with Karen's immediate vocal.."Dreamin'.."
 
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New Horizons.

Active Member
Regarding Anne Murray ( I'm a fan of hers and Carpenters equally)Anne did a live by request show in 2003 for Canadian tv.
Anne is asked to sing I just fall in love again and tells a story that the song was originally recorded by her idol Dusty Springfield and wasn't a hit BY Dusty.Dusty was then mad at Anne for recording it and having a hit with it.Anne says she was presented with the song and had she known Dusty had recorded it, Anne would never have released it.Anne and Dusty became good friends.Carpenters never got mentioned.
I still have to go with 'You' as the single that should have been and should be even now.Terry Wogan used to play it quite a few times on BBC radio.
 

GaryAlan

Well-Known Member
I recall first hearing the entire Passage LP, late 1977.
Immediately--and, since, the song
I Just Fall In Love Again,
has stuck with me.
The arrangement--bombastic, yet moving !
The vocals--soaring !
As far as I was concerned--and, especially since I first heard Anne Murray's Single,
the Carpenters' version is singular in its approach and its execution.
Never has a Carpenters' song been so under-appreciated by the masses, imho.
I love it.
 

tomswift2002

Well-Known Member
I was just thinking, with Thanksgiving coming up this weekend, one track that should’ve been a single in 1984 was “Home For The Holidays”. Years ago I read that songs composers had written the song for Thanksgiving, hence the reference to pumpkin pie. Plus Richard appeared on Solid Gold Christmas 1984 singing a different arrangement, but still it should’ve been released as a 45, maybe backed with AOFC.
 

Harry

Charter A&M Corner Member
Staff member
Moderator
Yes, it was originally written with Thanksgiving in mind.

But have you ever heard a radio station play "Thanksgiving music"? No - because there really isn't much.
 

newvillefan

I Know My First Name Is Stephen
I feel that it would have been helped a bit by cutting out the opening instrumentation all together and just have it begin with Karen's immediate vocal.."Dreamin'.."
The single edit of Calling Occupants springs to mind, although it would only have chopped 0:14 off the track, making it slightly more palatable at 3:51 in length if they’d gone for it as a single.
 

Rick-An Ordinary Fool

Morning Opens Quietly...
Yes, it was originally written with Thanksgiving in mind.

But have you ever heard a radio station play "Thanksgiving music"? No - because there really isn't much.
Better to promote Mr. Postman...waiting for mailman to bring those thanksgiving and christmas cards. :laugh:
 

CraigGA

Well-Known Member
Listen to the line "Heaven is the moment". I hear it all over, but that line has the "nasality" rather plainly.
I think that’s the way it sits in her range coming in and out of the phrases surrounding it. Kinda like The phrase...when there’s no getting over that rainbow in I Won’t Last A Day Without You. I actually like that phrase. It funny how we like and dislike and hear differently. I just listened again to be sure I remembered it in the manner as I thought. I just love this song and it’s possible we are looking through different glasses. I always thought that was the’live’ feature as the voice is similar to From This Monent On in the live recording from the Palladium. Years ago, there was a Steven who said Karen’s voice changed (although I disagreed) during the exhaustion period and maybe this is an example he thought of. I just think it’s a matter of ‘sweetening’ and mastering.
 

Carpe diem

Well-Known Member
Not only does she sound like she had cold while recording it, but she’s drowned out by the overbearing arrangement, especially in the final chorus. To my knowledge the track has never had the remix treatment, so it will be interesting to see what Richard does with the lead vocal for the RPO mix. Look at the difference a remix did for Karen’s lead vocals on Yesterday Once More. On the remixes her voice is fuller, richer-sounding with much more presence.
:righton::righton: Thank You!!
 

Carpe diem

Well-Known Member
Hopefully, modern technology and Richard's TLC can give this great Karen performance the vindication it so richly deserves on this upcoming RPO event. Nasaly or not.
 

tomswift2002

Well-Known Member
Yes, it was originally written with Thanksgiving in mind.

But have you ever heard a radio station play "Thanksgiving music"? No - because there really isn't much.
Well, in the States with Thanksgiving and Christmas so close to one another it just makes commercial sense to run them together.
 

tomswift2002

Well-Known Member
Hopefully, modern technology and Richard's TLC can give this great Karen performance the vindication it so richly deserves on this upcoming RPO event.
I’ve been listening to the Beach Boys CD recently and one some of the tracks like “Kokomo” it sounds like they’ve played around with the vocal tracks as well to where not only the instrumentation but the vocals sound different as well.
 
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